Last post on Apr 12, 2013 at 1:21 AM
You are in the Suzuki Verona
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Suzuki Verona, Sedan
#1648 of 1855 Possible Cause of Engine Stalling
Jun 27, 2007 (5:19 pm)
On my 6/19/07 posting I touched on the topic of the engine cover leaking oil onto sensors. In the midst of trying to trade out of my Verona, my engine would not start recently. I took it to my USUAL dealership service and they found the USUAL plugged MAP and O2 sensors and replaced them and was about to send me on my merry way as USUAL. Being very tired of this merry-go-round I followed my own advice and insisted the dealership ditch the "flowchart for dummies" and try a "hands-on" investigation. Also, I commented that I lost faith in their service since they keep replacing the same sensors and not finding out why they keep needing replaced. I don't know if I looked homicidal or was just plain lucky but the service advisor agreed (albeit, with the permission of the Suzuki District Manager). Here's what they found besides oil on the map and O2 sensors:
OIL IS INTERNALLY LEAKING PASS THE HEAD GASKETS INTO ENGINE, THE EGR IS SUCKING THE OIL INTO THE INTAKE MANIFOLD WHICH BLOWS IT INTO THE CATALYTIC CONVERTORS
In case you're thinking a typical leaky gasket--wrong. They tried replacing the gasket and it still hemorrhaged oil back into the engine. So now I have to wait a week while they order a new header. (Read: poorly toleranced/machined header.)
Before you all shout "Eureka!" there is one caveat: this investigation requires removing the entire top of your engine, your exhaust system, your intake system and God knows what else and then replacing alot of expensive sensors and parts and then tacking on dealership labor rates. We are not talking a $2,000 repair job here, we're talking .......let me put it to you this way, if you own a 2004 model the bill would be more than your car's market value. Be prepared for Suzuki to fight you tooth and nail in going this route.
#1649 of 1855 Re: Possible Cause of Engine Stalling [blkbob]
Jun 27, 2007 (7:40 pm)
oh I am sorry, but I no longer have the 04 Verona anymore. I obtained a lawyer, and well car was returned to dealer. I didnt waste no time, and got rid of the car. I filed lemon law case in Jan,07 and I pulled up the court case, and it shows that the case was dismissed is a matter of fact 6/20/07. I guess since we settled before court date. I acted quick on my part to get this over with. Well of course lawyers can and will drag if one lets them. I waited to hear from lawyers about a court date. Finally, close to date I finally let the lawyer know that I aint no fool, and I pulled up court date on website. I was going to be there with bells on, and only bells on. Next thing you know court day was moved from april to july. So Suzuki didnt even bother putting up a fight. Just thought I let u know.
#1650 of 1855 Re: Possible Cause of Engine Stalling [blkbob]
Jul 01, 2007 (6:10 am)
blkbob, at what mileage did you experience the oil fouled sensors which caused the starting problem? Were there any prior symptoms? Regarding the poorly toleranced machined header, what assurance do you have that Suzuki will replace with the new and improved part? Please let us know when you get your car back and how it's running. Best of luck.
#1651 of 1855 Re: Possible Cause of Engine Stalling [mm9351]
Jul 01, 2007 (10:08 pm)
The sensors were called "faulty" around 17,000 miles during stalling. The term "fouling" came about at 40k miles due to no starts. The stalling issues, I would imagine, were probably caused by fouling not faulty sensors.
Prior symptoms to the no start are: 1) engine light constantly coming on and spitting out codes 2) rough idling 3) engine sputtering during operation and at idle 4) engine stalling during operation and at idle 5) many, many trips to the service department within 11 months.
In regards to Suzuki assurances for me, Suzuki extended my warranty related to my issues and have ordered work and parts with no cost to me after the 36k mile mark. In regards to Suzuki assurances to anyone else--there is none whatsoever. That was my caveat in my original titled posting. I called Suzuki to get them involved and I rode the dealership's service department to investigate further. You can do the same but there is no assurance your result will be the same as mine. And, remember, I titled this subject as "Possible Cause of Engine Stalling", the key word here is "possible". Although it seems we all have the same engine issues keep in mind that the solution could be different.
Yes, I'll keep you posted when I get my car back soon.
#1652 of 1855 So Long, It's been a horror
Jul 02, 2007 (5:57 pm)
Haven't posted in quite some time to try and keep my mind of the horror of the Verona. For the last 2 years it's been in the shop about 20 times. Stalling, check engine light, engine noise, ROUGH idle, and I could go on and on. The dealer could only reset the check engine light and tell me the same thing over and over and over again. (random misfire). There is nothing wrong with your car, it drove like a dream. WHATEVER! I called the Mfg. and told them it was a safety defect and if I got hit in the rear when it stalled I would sue. The man at Suzuki in California assured me the factory would have someone look at the car the next week, which NEVER HAPPENED, and he refused to call me back anymore. The car is a Verona LX 2004, with a measly 38000 miles on it. Immaculate condition, won't run. Saturday morning was the straw that broke the camels back. Started car, check engine light flashing and then On. Car idling like crap, and died when I hit the A/C. I unplugged 2 fuses to reset the check engine light and traded her in for a 2007 Hyundai Sonata. I am tired of the trouble and tired of Suzuki, they Could care less. Never, ever give them any of your hard earned money! I would not dream of trading for another Suzuki or GM product. Wish me Luck with the Hyundai! I hope only the best for everyone else here. I was lucky that I had paid cash for the Verona and got 9000.00 trade in, leaving me 10,000.00 to pay on the Sonata. It's a V6 and has lots more power than the Verona. I paid an additional 2000.00 down and financed only 8000.00 at 5.75 percent. The payments are a paltry 153.00 per month for 5 years. Good Luck again all. One thing to note, the Sonata isn't as pretty as the Verona, but hopefully will be a better car.
#1653 of 1855 Re: So Long, It's been a horror [ccbloome61]
Jul 02, 2007 (7:13 pm)
lol one thing u mentioned about this u r right the sonata isnt as pretty as the verona. I really did like my car. but apparently not enuff to where I obtain a lawyer and had Suzuki buy back. Well best of luck on ur sonata.
#1654 of 1855 Re: Possible Cause of Engine Stalling [blkbob]
Jul 03, 2007 (5:23 am)
I have no doubt that Suzuki will make good on their promise and honor their commitment to repair your car outside of the 36K warranty. My question was ... "what assurance do you have that you will receive a "quality machined header part" (not one with faulty tolerances)... you should insist on an a quality inspected header machined to the new tolerances; otherwise you have not solved the problem. As a mechanical engineer I see this often; parts get replaced with parts from stock, also with latent defects. In other words, did Suzuki purge stock on the faulty headers? I would have that discussion with the Service Manager.
#1655 of 1855 Re: Possible Cause of Engine Stalling [mm9351]
Jul 03, 2007 (6:25 am)
I apologize, I misunderstood the part about assurances. We'll apparently there are none in that regards because I got the car back and it still rough idles. But hey, I got shiny new parts under the hood and the dealership owner can now fly with both his mistress and his wife to Bora Bora for a fun-filled, sun-filled vacation.
Joking aside, I wouldn't necessarily say the car was fixed it was just put back to it's pre-engine light phase, I'm sure the stalling will be coming back soon. I just hope to God that I'll be driving a non-Suzuki automobile by then.
It's sad and laughable at the same time that Suzuki would knowingly pay more than double the car's worth in warranty bills rather than buy it back. And then extend the warranty to throw even more money at the problem while failing miserably to correct the problem. Even Yugo and Daewoo weren't that stupid.
#1656 of 1855 Re: Possible Cause of Engine Stalling [blkbob]
Jul 07, 2007 (12:45 pm)
blkbob....my 04EX has always run beautifully with none of the problems you have experienced. However, when I took it in for routine service last Oct/Nov the dealer advised that I needed to have the head replaced. I had around 40k miles on it at the time and they just did the work under warranty. That is what I would have expected them to do since the header is part of the drivetrain which has a 7 year warranty. They told me it would have cost me $3500 if it had not been under waranty. This spring I have had the engine replaced twice and that was under warranty, too. They told me that was $7500 for each engine. I didn't even know I was having an engine problem. The original engine, as well as both replacement engines, have all run great. Guess I am fortunate to have a good dealer, and it isn't even the dealer where I bought the Verona. I plan to keep the vehicle until I start having reliability issues. At that time I will probably move to the RAV4.
#1657 of 1855 Re: Pull the plug on my 04 Verona [esalazar]
Jul 09, 2007 (6:10 pm)
Your final comment on all veronas in shop. That is funny cause I took mine in AGAIN for same problem annd there were 3 more there! Funny. Probably same thing problem stalling all the time. This car is a death trap!
I am in the process of getting a lawyer to sue under lemon law. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.