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Kia Spectra, Kia, Sedan, Wagon
#321 of 431 Re: [ateixeira #320]
Jun 30, 2004 (11:33 am)
Look where Kia was in 2001 (did they evaluate 2000 models in that survey?): the Sportage, the old Spectra, Rio was just out (?), no Optima, no Sorento, no Sedona, no Amanti. No wonder they did so poorly in the quality survey! Remember that Hyundai's quality improvement began in 1998 and only really picked up with the slate of new models for the 2001 model year (Elantra, Santa Fe, XG300). Since then the two oldest Hyundai models, Accent and Sonata, have improved their quality also (note how well they did in the latest J.D. Power IQS). So it will take awhile yet for the long-term reliability rankings of Kia to improve. Before then, we should see improvements in their initial quality rankings, and in fact we have seen that.
#322 of 431 Kia vs. Daewoo
Jul 01, 2004 (7:30 am)
I haven't been keeping up with Daewoo lately. Reviews for the Chevy Aveo, Suzuki Forenza, and Verona seem favorable. Has Daewoo made a big turnaround like Hyundai/Kia or is the Chevy Aveo the same Daewoo as we've had before?
Jul 01, 2004 (7:45 am)
Aveo is an old platform, just freshend up styling.
Daewoo actually had really good IQ scores early on because you had free service, so dealers would quickly address issues early on. They also had very good satisfaction scores, FWIW.
Problem was the sales model was horrible, and when they cut pay to those sales staff it just collapsed.
I don't think the product is as good as Hyundai and Kia, but they did score impressively well for a while there.
Jul 01, 2004 (3:31 pm)
I've heard mixed reviews about the Aveo, and it did seem a little cheap when I sat in one at the Philly Auto Show, but it seems to be selling OK for GM. They are on track to sell about 43,000 of them in the US this year, which is a decent showing for a subcompact in this market. Suzuki seems to be doing pretty well with the Forenza and Verona, though I wish GM would use their powertrain expertise to help them out a little in that department. Every review I've read of those two cars has been very positive with the exception of noting that the engines are underpowered and sluggish. If GM would drop the 2.2 Ecotec in the Forenza and the 2.4 (170-horse) Ecotec in the Verona, they would probably be more competetive.
#325 of 431 Re: Understood.. but my point was [backy #317]
Jul 01, 2004 (8:51 pm)
No, I dont think the very small incremental changes in acceleration or fuel economy would boost the Elantras score. I do think braking would improve with ABS, and if the GT was tested, perhaps handling, but why would ride improve?
Certainly, I think attempts at emissions improvements should be commended. As you mention though, the better fuel economy is only on the manual tranmission model.. which highlights one of my main issues with most Korean models.
Concerning the JD Power Vehicle Dependability surveys, I was surprised and disappointed to see that 2001 Hyundai models did not do better (well into the bottom half) on the 3 year old study.
pzev- where have you seen favorable reviews on the Aveo, Forenza, and Verona? IMO, to choose the Aveo sedan over, say... an Accent... is pretty crazy, given that the Accents offers a far superior warranty, as well as standard head protecting side impact airbags. The Verona is nice, a decent design overall, but slow, thirsty, and you need to wait a few months for any kind of side impact protection. The Forenza... reminds me of the ION in the fact that its rear looks similar to me, and that its non-distinguished in a saturated market.
#326 of 431 Re: Understood.. but my point was [alpha01 #325]
Jul 02, 2004 (7:31 am)
Personally I like the ride of the GT better than the GLS because it is more controlled, more like that of a European car, not as "floaty." But maybe CR would say the GT's ride is "harsher" than the GLS', who knows?
The better fuel economy on the manual Elantra is odd because the automatic Spectra, which I think has the same engine as the Elantra, has better highway mpg than the manual version.
I was surprised by Hyundai's low ranking in the JD Power VDS too because Hyundai did pretty well in CR's dependability rankings for 2001 models, coming in at mid-pack. It makes you wonder how each organization measures reliability. My '01 Elantra is almost four years old and has been at least as reliable as any other vehicle I've owned that long.
#327 of 431 I would favor
Jul 02, 2004 (8:06 am)
Consumer Reports in terms of long term dependability surveys/studies. I know that in their Initial Quality Study (IQS), JD Power factors in aspects that really arent quality related... its been mentioned before, but I'll use the example of the Hummer H2, which got terrible scores because of its pathetic fuel economy. Hello! It says right on the window sticker that you'll be getting 10 MPG!! Now, Im not sure if JD conducts its Long Term Dependability studies similarly, but if so, that might account for some variation between the CR reliability rating and that of JD Power's.
For me, I'd still consider the Hyundai nameplate based on CR (as you state.. midpack), its just disconcerting to see that there isnt unanimity on the improvement of the brand.
#328 of 431 CR Review
Jul 02, 2004 (2:36 pm)
CR's review of the "all new" 2004 Spectra EX is out, and it fared OK but not great. They slotted it below the Elantra GLS, although it was the second-best car in the test group, led by the Mazda3i (now CR's top choice for small cars). Plusses were comfortable ride, quiet interior, fit and finish, and standard side air bags and side curtains. They didn't like its acceleration, handling, fuel economy, and the difficulty finding a car with ABS.
I hope CR has a hatchbacks review in the future that features the Spectra5, Mazda3s, and Elantra GT. I expect the Mazda3s will win that one, but it would be nice to see how the others compare to that more expensive car.
Jul 03, 2004 (4:55 am)
What is with Hyundai/Kia and trying to find ABS on their cars? I'm willing to look past it though because they do make side air bags standard. Some brands you have to look around to find ABS and side air bags, at least Hyundai/Kia has one of them already. The refreshed Camry now has ABS standard on all their cars like the Accord so standard ABS is slowly filtering down to cheaper cars. I would guess in 5 years most Hyundai/Kia cars will have ABS standard. The new Sonata needs standard ABS.
By the way, anyone see the new Optima spy pics? Doesn't look too bad although a lot of it is covered up. Rear visibility looks way better than what's on the new Elantra spy pics.
#330 of 431 Re: [pzev #329]
Jul 03, 2004 (7:44 am)
I think the new Spectra gives some hint as to what to expect from Hyundai in the future. The Spectra has standard four-wheel disc brakes and side curtains, even in base form. Hyundai is supposed to be the "upscale" brand for Hyundai/Kia. That means it will need more content to justify the higher price, e.g. standard ABS and power accessories. We'll see in the next year or so when the new Sonata, Accent, and Elantra (and maybe Santa Fe) are all due out.