Last post on Aug 02, 2011 at 4:53 AM
You are in the Buick LaCrosse
What is this discussion about?
Buick LaCrosse, Sedan
#1029 of 2335 Thoughts on the LaCrosse
Jan 25, 2005 (9:26 pm)
The La Crosse, even though it is massive upgrade of Century and the Regal is 4 to 5 years behind the bell in respect to other near luxury cars (i.e. Lexus ES 330, Acura TL et al).
CXS La Crosse with Gold Convenience pkg, Curtain Air Bags, Stability Control, Sunroof, Monsoon 6 CD stereo, Satellite Radio, Heated seats, and Remote Start = $33400 MSRP.
2005 Acura TL $ 33,470 gives you Xenon headlights, Memory Seats/mirrors, Blue tooth, Extra cog transaxle with Manual Shift Gate, DVD based stereo , Torso Side air bags, 30 More HP, 8 more pound feet of torque, and Longer BTB warranty for only $ 70.
The only advantages the Lacrosse has are 3.5 cubic feet of trunk space, a bit more rear legs room and Ultrasonic parking assist.
Buick is not perceived at same level of prestige as Acura or Lexus. Blame 30+ years of badge engineering and Decontenting their cars down to a Chevy level.
Meanwhile import brands such as Toyota and Honda built clever little cars that were neatly assembled and thoroughly engineered. Those cars built their market esteem based on tangible quality and product advantages.
In other words while GM took the US market for granted, Toyota and Honda built better cars and won over the Baby Boomers and Generation x market with superior products.
It boils to this the near-luxury boom of the past 15 years has stolen to historic market of Buick, Oldsmobile, Chrsyler and Mercury. Buick sales for are down 60% or so from twenty years ago, even though total cars sales have varied 10% from 16 million a year. The 80% La Crosse is symbolic of GM slow decay in to Bethlehem Steel like Abyss. What is really 120% effort to match the competition and 85% of the market price.
Just a few thoughts
#1030 of 2335 Re: [vanman1]
Jan 26, 2005 (1:49 am)
You may not be obligated to keep subscribing to OnStar but you most certainly are obligated to having to contend with the OnStar electronics in the car if you buy it. Now, I ask you, why wasn't the money obligatorily allotted to OnStar spent on side torso airbags for the car instead of making you accept the OnStar physical/electronic system?
#1031 of 2335 Acura, Lexus, Toyota, VS LaCrosse
Jan 26, 2005 (3:22 am)
One magazine did a long term test of the Acura TL, and the leather interior got poor marks for wear after a few months.
Car and Driver Senior Editor Csaba Csere commented in his December editorial that even after their sludge problem, Toyota still does not offer a system that tells you when to change the oil like GM does.
Concerning the issue of LaCrosse only offering a four speed transmission and Lexus offering a five speed, please drive an ES330 for 24 hours like my wife and I did. The ES330 five speed loves to upshift, but is hesitant to downshift. It is not a reliability issue, so people who think of cars the way they think of Maytags might not care. But the hesitation is there in both the ES330 and RX330. I have not driven a new Camry, but I have read that it shares the ES330 transmission.
#1032 of 2335 Re: fredvh [alpha01]
Jan 26, 2005 (5:47 am)
>280 hp Accord.
Whatever the high-powered at high revs engine puts out. I didn't look it up. Sorry.
>I wasnt (sic) talking about Motorweek,
I mentioned Motorweek (the PBS program) in my discussion.
>Focus is 'alien' enough
The Focus is much different from a Crown Vic, Taurus, Windstar. It's more like a foreign car.
>Berate means to "rebuke or scold angrily and at length" according to dictionary.com
Thank you for the dictionary check.
#1033 of 2335 Re: fredvh [alpha01]
Jan 26, 2005 (8:41 am)
Thanks for the post. In terms of the Prius vis-a-vis the CR report, we expected the Prius to be similar to a Toyota midsize with respect to performance, etc. Instead, we found it to be a cramped (both driver seat and rear seat), underpowered, noisy, and downright irritating car to drive. The beeper that goes off inside the car when you are in reverse is enough to never want to go in reverse, although there is apparently some way to turn it off. In addition, that so-called information screen in the middle of the car was an utter distraction.
Anyway, back to my comment on the CR reliability reports and the statistical issues I have with it. You are correct, that in many ways the CR and JDPower reports track each other well, although there are a number of glaring exceptions. For example, average 3 year reliability of all Buick nameplates is higher than 3 year reliability of all Toyota nameplates (this does not include Lexus, which was higher than Buick) in the JDPower report. In the CR reliability, this is not the case. Also, while many individual cars track similarly in the two systems, there are often very large differences.
There are 2 nontrivial issues regarding the CR data in terms of validity. First, the CR data contain a confounding variable - all of the respondents subscribe to CR. Normally, in doing a survey one wants to eliminate confounding variables since it can skew the data. For example, if I wanted to find out about car reliability and I did a survey of only people who went to NASCAR races, I would bet that I would get a very different and equally "valid" result than CR. My data might have been skewed, however, by the confounding variable of all my samples being NASCAR fans. As I understand it, the JDPower survey is a random survey of car owners.
The second issue also relates to the respondents to the CR report all being CR subscribers. A substantial fraction of CR subscribers subscribe to CR in order to find out/be told what vehicle (or other product) to buy. Importantly, subscribers make a financial commitment to the magazine when they subscribe. This raises the issue of what happens if/when the car they buy turns out to be less than CR indicated. Will they be honest in their responses, or will they not want to be percieve themselves as a rube since they paid money for this advice, and pretend the problems don't exist?
I do agree with you that CRs car ratings in terms of how much they like a vehicle do appear independent of reliability ratings. A couple things I would find useful would be if CR would include the cost of ownership in reliability, as they used to do. It would also be nice if CR gave numerical data with standard deviations on the repair incidence, rather than just their circles - I would like to judge for myself how different the values are. Finally, it would be a really neat experiment if CR or some other organization were to repeat the CR study of car reliability one year except instead of including just CR subscribers, include a random sample of car owners. My hunch is that many of the trends between the CR reports and this study would be similar, but there would also be many glaring exceptions. Anyone have a couple hundred K for such a study!
#1034 of 2335 Re: fredvh [robchemist]
Jan 26, 2005 (8:57 am)
I suggested the sample problem in other discussions here on Edmunds about CR's bias and inaccuracy in reporting. I was summarily pooh-poohed by some posters in that other discussion.
The fact that only subscribers get the questionnaires and then some of those return them and some don't skews the information.
CR never tells how many reports it has about a particular car. That lack of information is a concern in itself for me to understand their results.
I've always sensed that the results are oriented to keep the subscribers happy: their subscribers tend to be green IMHO. That's whom they want to feel that CR has rated their car high or helped them with their other purchases.
Does anyone have info about their subscriber demographics?
#1035 of 2335 About the superiority of Acura, etc......
Jan 26, 2005 (12:43 pm)
5-speeds, 6-speeds, more high-rev HP, so what?
What counts is the resulting performance/cost.
From what I can tell, the average LaCrosse is fast, smooth, quiet, comfortable, good-looking, well-made [we hope - new model], reasonably well-equipped, good on [regular] gas and probably doomed to poor resale values. Of course, there's the Made in USA [assembled in Canada but by UAW people] factor, too.
3.8 LaCrosses are selling for way under MSRP, depending on the dealer, GM Card $$$, rebates, cheap financing and various other incentives. The truly competitive CSX is too costly for now. The foreign cars offer much less in the way of incentives, although $22K Camrys are going for $17K these days.
The aura of bullet-proof quality surronding Toyota, et. al. should one day be earned by GM, too.
#1036 of 2335 Re: About the superiority of Acura, etc...... [verdi942]
Jan 26, 2005 (12:50 pm)
Are the 5 speed automatics in Acura the ones I read about on another group here that are having problems (more than other Honda products already are having with their transmissions?)?
#1037 of 2335 Yo, folks!
Jan 26, 2005 (5:57 pm)
We need to remember that the subject of this particular discussion is the LaCrosse. We're wandering all over the place here.
There are lots of other discussions where many of these recent comments and questions would be most appropriate. If the search features on the left side of the page do not help you find an appropriate venue for your thoughts drop me an email and I'll dig something up for you.
Meanwhile, back to the LaCrosse in this discussion ...
#1038 of 2335 Re: [priggly]
Jan 26, 2005 (8:36 pm)
why wasn't the money obligatorily allotted to OnStar spent on side torso airbags for the car instead of making you accept the OnStar physical/electronic system?
Because consumer ate it?