Last post on Dec 23, 2012 at 6:37 PM
You are in the Chevrolet Cobalt
What is this discussion about?
Chevrolet Cobalt, Coupe, Sedan
May 20, 2005 (6:17 pm)
OK, I should have said then, you don't want car to look over done for an small car, and trying to be something it is not - having too much over-the-top look to it. Sorry if someone took some of read of what this California term means. Japan is fine, people are fine as a whole, cars are fine. Sorry to offend anyone. Reference was to car look, and nothing to do with people, or origin of the make. Will use over-the-top styling now as the terminology.
Did you know that the Corolla still sells for $14K with a stick? Has anyone driven the new Corolla and the Cobalt the same day for a comparison? Or the Civic? And did they end up buying a Cobalt? It looks like Hyundai is coming in under the radar with increase numbers of sales. They look alot like Japan makes, so many people have yet to notice that they are out there in ever increasing numbers. Right now it looks like the advantage of Cobalt is in the HP dept, but with so many other cars going head to head, perhaps GM should look to some other advantages as selling points, maybe free maintenance for four years, complete upgrade package in the car for say $15K, or something else not coming to mind at the moment, just to differentiate their car from the rest. I am afraid it will be lost amongst all the rest. Going RWD would be a possibility, if the cost was not so high, and in snow country, I know you guys and gals would need the traction control and other stuff for the RWD. Anyway, at some point, if not in the Cobalt size, they should be moving to cars with RWD. I think 2008 is the date for Monte Carlo RWD, but I am not sure on that one. Still think a smaller one, like maybe Malibu size in RWD, with an inline 6 would be cool and if sold for say under $21 may compete with BMW on the low end. Just a dream? I just don't think the course GM is taking will work. They must upscale and make really different looking and performing cars to survive. Let Korea and Japan fight it out on the low end cars.... but wait, it looks like Japan may be moving more towards mid to top line, and hybrids. How much of Daweo does GM own? Maybe it should be the low end badge like the Aveo as a GM Daweo and RWD mid-sized cars as GM Holden. Will there always be a Chevy and Cadillac - perhaps so. The Pontiac and Buick lines? If they downsized to four to six models, other than Cadillacs, and called them GM's without the badging of Chevy,Pontiac or Buicks would that hurt sales??? Brand loyalty with GM, some say so!
#1132 of 2240 16" tires are preferred for everyday driving
May 21, 2005 (6:27 am)
I have no need for 17" wheels, but 16" wheels would make sense for a better ride. Why wouldn't a Cobalt owner want larger tires like every other car on the market. Years ago they made fun of the 13" tires, then the 14", now auto writers say the 15" tires are too small and lame.
You are correct m1miata, going to too big with tires will only make the ride rough and potentially cause a bent rim.
#1133 of 2240 Herd mentality
May 21, 2005 (8:12 am)
While my Dad's car is a Camry, and could use a larger wheel, the current 14" does the job just fine. With Toyo Ultra 800 tires, you do not hear the tires at all. Very smooth ride. Yes, 15" or even 16" may be better. I had 13" wheels on an Opel Manta Rallye, and they had one heck of a time back when, balancing those wheels. I wish it did have 15" wheels. The Celica still comes with 15" wheels and it will out handle most cars on the road. Cobalt will look just fine and drive just fine with 15" wheels, and I guess 16" if it makes those doing reviews and the rest of the herd happy. The 17" and 18" will just slow the car down, add cost for tires replacement, and if in a low enough profile make the seem like it has no shocks. For marketing, yes, they should have 18" to 20" wheels and those huge bass woofers and such. Yeah, it sells, so go ahead and do it. - Loren
#1134 of 2240 Re: Herd mentality [m1miata]
May 22, 2005 (6:31 am)
I too had an Opel Manta years ago. Mine was a 1974 model, light green, with an automatic transmission. I bought it from a friend for either $100 or $200, I can't remember, and used it for my winter beater back in the 1980's. The car got reasonable mileage for a one with over 100,000 miles. That 1900 cc engine was one of the biggest of it's time along with the BMW 2002. The automatic was the worse part. I ended up giving it away.
#1135 of 2240 Good wheel choices
May 22, 2005 (7:53 am)
I guess I think the wheel choices Chevy is going with is mostly pretty good. The 15" inch wheels offered on the LS model are the perfect size for my needs.I don't know about Cobalt for 2006, but the HHR will offer a sport suspension option on some models. That option will come with 17" wheels. While I sort of wish that option was available with 16"" inch wheels, the standard suspension is probaly better for my needs.I do not need the power of the SS model, but the upgrades to the VVt engine do make it tempting.The move to larger wheels is pretty much industry wide for sportier cars.I wonder what the insurance penalty will be for the 2.4 engine. I do hope to see an upgraded 2.2l soon , to improve fuel milage figures.
Then I hope to see a diesel option for Cobalt.. To me these steps will be needed to shoot the Cobalt to the top of the sales charts.I am not sure what the barriers to diesel for USA are but it would good for GM not to be slow to break the barrier.If I had the cash now, would I buy an LS Cobalt.. I probably would.When I can afford a new car,, in about a year, Ihope the Cobalt is still at the top of the list.
#1136 of 2240 Cobalt vs Mustang, or others in the $20K+ range
May 22, 2005 (10:34 am)
Cobalt, once into or beyond the base price of say a Mustang or even the soon to be gone Celica, really make sense? I still don't understand someone wanting a Cobalt SS, which will be a souped up economy car, when they could be in something up the next tier. If they want light weight and quick handling, it has to be Celica. For looks and overall package, including a V6, the Mustang with a stick seems pretty good. Well, that said, if the gas is now flowing into the tanks better. Ah yes, the new car blues have befallen some new Stang owners. My bet is that Cobalt will have some quirks along the way too. And then there is the Acura which starts around the price of the Cobalt SS. Just thinking it is trying to move into too high a territory and will be fly out of bounds.
May 22, 2005 (2:55 pm)
at a Chevy clinic I attended, the reason for huge wheels ("17 - 18") on Cobalt and Malibu was purely marketing, which strongly believed the huge rims gave the cars the urban "bling-bling" look that supposedly everyone wants.
meanwhile the engineers were stating smaller (16") wheels and upgraded tires would make the cars perform much better.
I guess it depends on whether you are buying the car for show or go?
And for that matter, how important should exterior styling be, given that we are __inside__ the cars most of the time while driving them?
#1138 of 2240 Re: Cobalt vs Mustang, or others in the $20K+ range [m1miata]
May 23, 2005 (7:06 am)
Whether it is a Cobalt SS, Neon, Civic, Ion, etc., they all cost about the same in their sport configuration. These cars are for the tuner minded who like the compact size, weight, and style.
A lot of people who buy and build imports, and even the new American pocket rocket cars, don't particularily care for Camero's and Mustangs. The import tuner is known to put $10-20,000 into their 4-cylinder engine for an edge on the other drivers.
The Celica was ok, but it didn't sell very well. I think the Cobalt and other coupes looks better than the Celica. I may be wrong by not looking, but I think the Cobalt SS, Ion, Neon, can also out perform the Celica in handling, excelleration, etc.
#1139 of 2240 Re: Cobalt vs Mustang, or others in the $20K+ range [poncho167]
May 23, 2005 (9:09 am)
Bingo. The Cobalt SS is at the top of it's class in handling. Those 18" wheels must really be hurting its performance...
Motor Trend Feb 2005
"The Cobalt SS is the fastest regular production front-drive car through the slalom we've tested in three years, rocking through the cones even faster than the new Corvette Z51. The SS out cornered the VW R32 on the skidpad, outgunned the Mini Cooper S 0-to-60 mph, and outstopped the Subaru Impereza WRX 60-to-0 mph."
The Celica GTS is $22,500, has 180 hp and 130 lb-ft of torque. The Cobalt SS costs about the same, has 205 hp and 200 lb-ft of torque, and has superior handling. It's a no-brainer.
More about wheel sizes...
Loren claimed NASCAR uses tires that flex and they are 15". Don't see them as not gripping. NASCAR and every other major racing body limits wheel and tire sizes to promote competition and increase safety, not to maximize performance. NASCAR's limit is 15". LeMans Prototypes have an 18" limit. Look at the following list and tell me again why your 14" Miata wheels perform better than 17" wheels would. I'm not talking about practicality, just performance.
Car - Tire size front / rear
Ford GT - 18/19
Dodge Viper - 18/19
Carrera GT - 19/20
SLR McLaren - 19/19
Corvette - 18/19
Enzo - 19/19
#1140 of 2240 Cobalt SS a different Cobalt
May 23, 2005 (9:57 am)
First of all, while slalom and later G tests are good indicators of handling, it is not the end all. Have you seen a road test, or track test between the Cobalt SS, Acura RSX and Celica GT? I would not buy the Celica GT-S but would instead go for the GT. Less HP, but almost the same torque. Unless drag racing or on the track, GT will have adequate torque to sport the back roads. A Celica GT will hold resale value better, as it is not a modified economy coupe and is a Japan make. The Mustang V6 has 205 HP without all the supercharger stuff going on. Cost the same or less than the Cobalt SS. I did not say that NASCARs could not handle better with larger tires, say on a road course. I did say they are not flying off the track just because the tires are less in size. If you want to pretend your car is a LeMans racer, fine, pay the extra money for the tires. My Miata, with 14" wheels will take all the turns on tight twisty roads at around double speed if ya want to, so how much faster do you need to go? Porsche 944 came with 16" wheels, and I bet ya it out handles the Cobalt. Corvettes use to come with 16" wheels. Heck a lot of performance cars came with 15" wheels. A Celica still has 15" wheels. As for the max on Miata, I think it is 16" size before the car slows down and performance suffer, for the first gen. cars, and 17" are OK on the second gen. cars. The suspension is pretty tight on those race cars. I doubt it will be the same on a Cobalt, so will it really be doing better at handling the unsprung weight - nahhh. I assume it out later G tests the VW due to the high profile of the VW compared to the Cobalt. The modern day tires have really helped the scores for later G tests. That said, there is a lot of bumps in the roads, and power shifting going on, and a whole lot of other elements once actually driving the car on the road. Good that it does well in the later G. Hope it does well on the road too. I am sure it will perform well. GM has made cars that did well on the road. CobaltSS may be just perfect, in its class. That said, where's the value? If you want a street car racer, why not buy a used Camaro SS which still more power than the current Mustang GT, or a used Corvette ( they have big tires, now-a-days ). Now a Corvette is Americas sports car. The Corvette and Mustang are also RWD. Mustang RWD and under $20K. And that is Americas Pony car.