Edmunds.com | Inside Line | Auto Observer Your Account | Help | Directory
You are here:
![[F]](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/site.gif){kind=small}
Forums
Sedans Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan
5511 messages, Last post on Nov 11, 2009 at 9:26 AM
You are in the Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
|
|
|---|---|
| thanks for the link. | |
|
So far the entire interior dimensions of the Futura are not even in the ballfield at this moment. Right now it's the "this is our mission, this is the platform, let's make it work" senario... By summer of 2004, the sizes, weights, etc. should be closer to finalization. Funny you mention the babyseat issue, recently my friends had the day off (teachers work day) and they decided to go out and shop. I was nominated to drive. We had the choice of 03 Saturn L300 or 02 Focus, thinking the Saturn was bigger, they all movies their baby seats onto that vehicle. Well, it was quite a tight fit, I wasn't able to move my seat that far back. So my other friends said "let's try the Focus"... amazingly, the Focus was able to swallow everyone much more comfortably with the babyseats in their places. And the trunk was huge enough to fit their respective stroller's, as well as all the junk we all bought at the mall. (To be fair, the Saturn trunk is 17.5 cu.ft., even larger). Minivans I believe are the best compromise between versatility (can use it to pretty much move anything you need, toe a boat up to 3500lbs), it seats 7-8 comfortably, etc. Unfortunatly it has a soccer mom stigma, or many perceive it that way. Compared to SUV, their gas milage are better, and overall the ride is better. Now in my personal opinion, I don't think they have been exploited as best as they could be. Meaning, a Car based, RWD, V8 engined minivan, I believe. I'm not talking about Chevy Astro here either, being it's truck based. But with the sophisticated traction/stability systems out there, RWD is making a comeback. Couple that to V8 power which I believe ANY vehicle over 4000lbs should have standard. You might think, the V8 is a bit much... But in the case of the Explorer V6, to Explorer V8 gas milage is pretty much the same... Why? V6 has to work that much harder, to make up for power. The V8 is a much relaxed cruiser = last longer. Eventually a manufacturer will stick a V8 into their minivan, for torque sense (not just horsepower) I just wonder who's willing to make the bold move first.  Which related me to your next question.... Competition makes good manufacturer's, better. As you asked, why are Japanese manufacturer's seen as more reliable. Mainly it's their efficiency. See, when a detroit automaker renovates/reinvents a vehicle, every possily part is improved, replaced, exchanged, etc. This causes NUMEROUS items that can go wrong, NOT because of their fault necessarily, but because of the supplier's. It's NOT just a manufacturer that changes a specific part, it's the supplier who needs to fit those requirements, and make them within a time period that it'll be ready for production. Japanese usually use the same parts over and over, their thinking is "if it's not broken, let's not fix it". So numerous components in their vehicles, are carried over. Maybe some slight improvements in the engine, and body structure, but that's mainly it. Ford has just announced they will start this new philosphy, since it's worked well for the japanese manufacturer's. Platforms are also another issue, if you look at a current Accord/Camry, their basic platform pretty much dates back numerous years. But they designed back them, to be flexible, and be allowed to "grow" without minimal weight added. As example, let's take a 86 Taurus platform, that was increased to become the Lincoln Continental, and in the process it added up weight into the 4000lbs. zone. Here's a tip I've learned when a platform is becoming dated and something massive will need to be done about it, check when the platform was last engineered, if since then it's grown about 300-400 lbs, in it's current state (sedan form, minivan form, etc) it's TIME to get a new one. Mustang fits this senario perfectly, throughout ALL these years, it's ballooned 500lbs+, NOT bad considering it dates back to 1979, but it gives us a clue. And on the other extreme, new RX330. While the Camry platform is a good platform overall and can be tailored to pretty much anything, in this senario, the vehicle will require something VERY different, in it's next reincarnation. It just gained about 400 lbs. Their factories are also quite efficient overall, just as a house... if you build a good foundation, everything else you put into the structure will hold up well. Unfortunatly (because of other issues) the american manufacturer's haven't updated most of their factories yet. From the Big3, Ford is the one that's ahead in this situation, NOT just in N.A., but all over the world. And they are beginning to use "supplier parks", meaning the components will be available, onsite, instead of having a huge stock, or short stock, or waiting for parts to be delivered. Flexible manufacturing systems where multiple vehicles are built within the same assembly line, allows for vehicle production to be changed between on to another, depending on sales at that time. Japanese manufacturer's also do not have the massive union issues that american manufacturer's do. The UAW makes it very hard to stay competitive. The UAW is seen as a spoiled/only child. If they do not get what they want, then he's not going to do as you wish him you do. Personally, they need a good spanking. And unfortunatly, for every "give" the Big3 give to their demands, silently hundreds are jobs are added to their Mexican or Canadian plants. In reality, the UAW is burning their own bridges, and a reality check is soon in order. We'll see how the next UAW meeting coming up soon, pans out. The new President Gelterfelder (sp?) is acting stuff, in a situation that dictates compromise, not the spoiled brat syndrome. Then you have the biggest issue of all (in my opinion) media, auto-journalists, analysts. They are a big influence on consumer's obviously. And their bias is quite evident in their publications. Take for example (I've used this example before) Consumer Reports publication. Newly renovated Accord debuts, it's not out for one month, and they give it a high rating. YET the Aviator (essentially an Explorer with a larger engine) receives a "too new to rate" rating. Go figure.... Or in numerous other publications I have read, such as Car and Driver, Motortrend. They'll call a platform "dated" if it's in a domestic vehicle that's 3 years old, yet when the same applies to another foreign brand, on a 4 year old platform, it's considered "warmed over", "efficient". I call it bias. Most common example, between Pontiac and BMW's red interior illumination. On Pontiac (QUOTE) it was called "Garish", yet on the BMW it's called "insightful, easy to read". BMW has had over 11 recalls on their X5, Focus has had almost just as many, yet on the newspaper or on local news, you will see the Focus being reported, NOT the X5. Civic itself has had quite a bit of recalls, yet they are done silently, and the media hardly ever heard of it. Yet even when one dome |
|
|
Great info, once again ANT. Wonder if you've read Mary Walton's book, CARS? (The 5 year story of the 96 Taurus development). I found it very enlightening on a lot of levels. Mostly, after reading what you have to do to build a car, it's a wonder the darn things run at all! A miracle, actually, and here we are arguing about which switch feels better... I gained a lot of compassion for the DN101 team in the end. But, if you've read it, do you feel it was pretty accurate from what you've seen? Personally, I hated the looks of the Taurus redesign. Too girly for me, so I never gave the new Taurus/Sable even a decent lookover when they came out. Other than renting them from time to time, I still haven't. After reading the book, Ford evidently had a car better than Camry in almost every respect when they got done. I feel badly, I gave the old girl no respect when she debuted. When the first Taurus came out, a relative let me keep their new 96 LX over the weekend, and I was totally hooked. HAD to have one for me, 87 Sable, and bought an 87 Sable and 5 Tauruses for the company. I felt they were unexcelled in their time. But I thought they got cheapened from them to now. The last Sable I rented was a dismally decorated car. Oh, it ran fine, if not ploddingly, but very uninspiring. I commented to my wife how sad I was to see them decontent such a great car to that level..... But, also, I have to dial in that I now drive Lincolns, and I'm used to those. Anyway, I digress badly here. Do you know of the book? |
|
|
No I haven't read the book. I actually dislike reading (for pleasure) because I'm constantly reading everyday. This stemmed from my childhood actually, I was amazed how I was able to graduated school and university by using just Cliff Notes, that gives you an idea how bad it was. I wasn't too fond of the styling from the 96-99 generation Taurus. It was a bit too "much" for my taste. Ironically, the current Taurus's styling I simply love. I believe THAT should have been the styling that should have taken place for 1996. The froggy eyed look, ovoid overkill, and droppy butt elements do not do well for sedan consumers. Unfortunatly, the product became discontented and earned less praise due to Jac Nasser's FAULT for not improving or concentrating on the vehicle. He was concentrating too much on SUV's and premium brands. But yes, every possible component of a car is studied. For example, the Focus' switches were tested on older consumers, and glove wearing consumers, to see if they were simple to use. And if the tactile feel was good enough. If it has "quality" touch and texture to it. And that's becoming such an issue, where a doors "thump" is tested over and over, to make sure it has a quality sound to it. Down to how a vehicles trunklid shuts/opens, to the fluidity action a glovebox door travels. Then once you find a solution, or a choosing for a particular component, it's the hope that the supplier is able to duplicate it, that many units over where the quality is consistant. But that's just one of numerous factors involved, which is why so many "teams" are required for each process, which is why more vehicles are using more common components from one to another, lowering development costs, as well as complexity in manufacturing it. |
|
|
|
| I LOVE the current Taurus's styling and think it is one of the best styled vehicles on the market today. Does anyone agree? However the 96-99's were GROSS. Yuck, I hated that generation. And the wagon keeps the oval rear side windows and ugly rear end. Come on, ANT, why didn't they totally restyle the wagon too? I've always wondered that. I saw the wagon in a 2000 brochure and was VERY surprised at the rear end of it. If it weren't for that, I'd prefer the wagon to the sedan. Still, every year I hope for a restyled wagon, although I know that's not going to happen. Whoa! Hold on a sec. There isn't going to be a Futura or Five Hundred wagon. I never thought about this. Amazing that Ford is totally switching to car and truck based SUVs now. Wow! Oh, except for the current Focus and the Fusion, which is too small to be an SUV, just a compact wagon. | |
|
Ironically, Ford sells the most station wagons of any other manufacturer. This is NOT including it's Volvo brand, just FORD brand itself. Add Volvo into the equation and overall Ford Company, has the most station wagon offerings of any other manufacturer. Ford is limited as to what it can do styling wise to the station wagon, changing the tailgate design would require quite a bit of investment, therefore the most they can do is change the light assembly/configuration. Yes the Five Hundred will have a station wagon version, it's called the Freestyle
|
|
|
|
| from reviews so far. To test you, do u consider Chrysler Pacifica a wagon? And yes, I realized they had the most wagons and that is way cool. Don't call them station wagons, just wagons, as STATION wagons don't make sense anymore. | |
| What test? It's all a crossover segment. Just how I see the Pacifica as a crossover. Personally I find it a bit rediculous someone pays $40K for a shrunken minivan (that IS the platform it stems from) and only seats 6. At least the Freestyle will one up them using a totally new platform (for Ford brand) and be able to seat at least 7. | |
|
|
| is at that price. Crossovers are all (with the exception of Allroad and XC70 wagons) car-based mid-size SUVs in my mind. I hate the term CROSSOVER when in reality they are just mid-size SUVs built on a unitbody platform. | |
| Well different markets cater to different tastes, at least the consumer can't say there's no choice. | |
You are here:
Forums
Sedans Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan
New? Join Now!
Forum Tools
Search Forums
Browse by Vehicle
2010 Mercury Milan
2010 Ford Fusion
Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
Today's Chats
