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Sedans Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan
5511 messages, Last post on Nov 11, 2009 at 9:26 AM
You are in the Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Anything with an M is pretty much possible. 
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| Or Murderer. Wait a sec, what a great name for a Mercury. I can just see the advertisement. The new Mercury Murderer midsize sedan. It can take you anywhere you want to go and can murder anyone you want on the way. LOL! | |
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Hope the powers to be are smart enough to keep the ABS as an option. One less problem child. Car buff's can't even properly work on the system, one needs to be factory trained and use the proprietary Star tester and they're having trouble. (high labor charges) Costing cutting the components hadn't helped, as note from some Ham buddies who own factories supplying the auto industry. All manufactures are guilty. Once most folks have mastered or even half mastered "threshold braking" ABS is like swimming fully dressed. It be helpful in Winter conditions, but since I avoid the maintenance nightmare option, I'll never know. I posed this question to one of the Ford brake engineers that hangs out on www.contour.org site. Beside the fact he'd would be fired immediately if he said anything (auto industry must be worst than the Cold War goings on) he says no one knows for sure until the last minute. Geeze American business is in a terrible mess. This bottom line profits only thing? Whatever happened to the term "Earnings"? Paul N8BUU |
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Unfortunatly threshold braking is just ONE too many things most people wouldn't A) Understand B) Try C) Attempt D) Master. Most people are not aware of the simple dynamics of their car, and what to do, and not to do. Examples: I had a friend who had an accident, called me to tell me she was ok, and that her car sucked because the airbags didn't inflate.... Her car did NOT have airbags. Someone in a RWD car who accelerated too hard to turn into a intersection, while raining. Caused it to spin 360. FWD driver who hit a curb at 30MPH (made car flip). Most typical: SUV driver's that freak and jerk the wheel. Causing them to flip and roll. People who have a blown out tire on the expressway and slam the breaks (causing total loss of control). So threshold breaking is one of those fine arts that when an emergency occurs, we KNOW they'll still get it wrong, slam the break, jerk the wheels, the yaw of the vehicle will be negatively distributed and in the end they'll still have an accident. GM is ending a year long decade of offering ABS as standard equipment, it's one of their cost cutting method. While Ford keeps ABS standard on their trucks/SUV's/Minivans, and higher trim versions of passenger cars. Personally, I like knowing that a there trucks have standard ABS in case I'm in a situation that can help them, and me out. As for passenger cars, at least I have a fare chance overall. It's one more thing that breaks down, but with the complexity of vehicles nowadays, it's quite hard to avoid that even in the simplest of vehicles. But regarding the vehicle, is it that your wanting to know of ABS will be optional or standard feature? And that your buddy wasn't able to confirm this? |
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Yes, the Futura looks to be the closest to my Mystique LS (closest Ford offering bang for the buck drivers car Ford has ever offered.) I sure hope the Futura can live up to Mondeo's chassis? My LS is 5 years old now and through sharing of info/how to's & etc. on contour.org site, I see no reason not being able to keep it for another 10. One thing was the replacing the harmonic balancer with the DMD. (Dual mode) Sooooo much smoother! However the ole 89 Probe is getting tired. Me ( and my whole family) are big Ford buyers, first big reason our small town dealer. If you look at my profile, Dad got to drive his Lincoln LS for one year, but he never felt comfortable. He was a product of the depression and WW II and I too was raised with "learn to live within your means son". He liked the car, but that image thing! Anyway I wasn't impressed with the ABS. Yes the engineer only knows me through the web site, so I don't blame him for being careful. All he knew for sure, if someone says they know now, it's only speculation at best. I know our dealer complains about the uncertainty with just being able to order a car and the next day it he goes to offer that same package to another customer and Ford's made a change. Nope can't do that. Is it the competition or the organization's inability to deal with it's huge size?? I'll shut-up for now, I have this problem, I feel people need to know why I do what I do? Paul Oh yes, I sort learned to drive on gravel country roads and threshold braking was only part of the equation. Or course we didn't know it had a name, except it's how we stayed out of hot water with the ole man. Keep it on the road and the fenders didn't get crumpled. |
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If you love your Mystique, chances are you'll love the Futura just as much. It'll be very european in handling and very controllable. I remember test driving one when they first came out in 95 I believe... I just grabbed that steering wheel and was shocked it was a Ford product being I wasn't used to anything from Ford feeling that way. I know 2 people that have them, a 96 and 98 model, and in my opinion, even if they have a few years on them, they drive much better than some of the "NEW" vehicles that have come out recently. To me I've always seen them as a real sporty sedan, for a great price. As for option groups, standard items, etc. Yes this person is correct. Some of those "toys" such as ABS and such, aren't known yet how they will be grouped till a few months before the initial release, and even then, some things can be switched around at the last minute. One major reason this is done, is to stay competitive with the competition. But before reaching this point, you also have supplier's that might, or might not have the capacity to fullfill a request. So the issue depends on them as well. For example, if let's say ABS is being thought of as standard, then the supplier's need to be notified if they can fullfill such a request. (If they expect sales of 200K units). And "what IFs" such as needing 20K more, because the vehicle is selling beyond what they thought. Or you have senarios where the supplier's might need a specific raw material/steel/etc. and maybe the truck union has a strike and slowing down shipment. ETC. at the last minute things can be switched around and Ford might state, "well, we'll make this item an option for now". Many variables to consider. In a perfect world, everything runs smoothly, and product launches go accordingly. Realistically, out of the millions of factors involved, 99.9% are solved before the product is released. And many times it's not the manufacturer, but a supplier issue as many of Ford's recalls have been. I just find it interesting how they usually don't release names of the supplier's in question, a little PR PC tidbit. |
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Very interesting stuff Anthony, I'm not known to be exceptionally sharp, however you seem to have close ties to what's going on at Ford. a. Maybe this is one of the ways Ford's doing a "study" putting out feelers? If this is the case it's good to hear that someone is listening. Who did and why did the Contique's really get axed? Lot of rumors out there, not that it really matters. Many feel it was Mr. Nasser's empire building caused the demise and not the SUV fad greed factor of the 90's??? b. You're part of a group that interfaces with vendors? If you are do you remember the Higher brothers from Ohio? c. If you have any pull, I'd sure like to get the specs on the RFI filter that an common TSB for the electric fuel pump specifies. That is one heck of a spark-gap generator. It's a 2 year long story and even through contour.org guys at Visteon ???? Either no ones really truly knows or I'm KGB! Actually a poor Ham "N8BUU" trying to use VHF in his car and not blow himself up trying out his own R & D! All I need is what frequency was the TSB RFI filter really designed. I need some sort of staring point. Been through all the usual avenues, I don't understand? You'd think I was asking for the codes to launch a Nuke! I did have a "secret-crypto" in the late sixties in Korea and I use to have black Mercedes following me around Germany? Maybe the words out, whatever that might be???? Hi Hi d. If you know Richard Parry-Jones tell him thanks for his fine chassis's and keep up the good work. I hope he's gets to influence the Futura? If so I'll buy one if I have to mortgage on my house! TNX Paul Echelberger N8BUU ntaceng  sprintmail.com give me your land line # I'll give you a ring. At your convenience
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A) There were various factors as to why the Contour got axed. Product overlap. The pricepoint of the vehicle was overlaped by the Escort (and then Focus) as well as Taurus. Therefore biting into sales that affected 2 higher selling models that might have caused them (and eventually did but NOT at Contours expense) their #1 seller bragging rights. The Focus was to be introduced, and space wise, it would have eclipsed that of the Contour. And it's backseat was another issue. American's buying philosophy (at that time or to some point still is) you pay for the price, according to the size. Which is why some people have a hard time fathoming spending $26K for a subcompact Jetta. Or like some other's can't comprehend by the Focus (small to most) and Supermini's, sell so well in Europe, YET are loaded with intensive gadgets. It's more about quality over quantity, and the Contour had quality over quantity at a time people weren't willing to accept. As you may know, because they do speak about such things in the Contour website you mentioned, I don't wish to repeat myself for what you might have heard there. But overall, being a world car, it was trying too hard to be what everyone around the globe wanted. And not executed as best as it could have. BUT the Focus fullfilled that mission, and done great (around the globe) considering it's the highest selling passenger car in the world. While for us it's considered a "entry vehicle" or "economy vehicle" in Europe it's a 2nd step up vehicle, since the Fiesta is their 'entry vehicle'... A bit of product shuffle, yet it has worked quite well. I myself would have loved the Mondeo to be an entrant in the N.A. market, but that's do to other reasons. Unfortunatly Jac Nasser left a legacy of issues behind, and it's still being cleaned up. Now, being the platform of the Mazda6 is engineered to tailor pretty much any market, the vehicle can be flexible enough to offer it as a mid-size sedan, and quell the concerns of N.A. buyers. Since the news of the Futura has erupted, I've seen numerous people saying "but the Mazda6 is too small" thinking it's just a rebadge job when it's truely not. B) Nope, not involved with vendor groups. C) I'm suprised no one at contour.org has been able to answer the RFI filter question, although I'm not familiar with alteration or repairs or warranty related issues unless it's brought to my attention. But if there's people blowing up their gas tanks, do you think it's something you would wish to further investigate? D) I'm all for Richard Parry Jones, (for those who might not know) he is credited for vehicles such as Ford Fiesta, Ford Mondeo, Ford Focus, Jaguar S-Type, Jaguar X-Type and Lincoln LS. He oversees worldwide product/development/design, etc. I just hope the other higher brass at Ford "work" with him, and let him continue on his find performance. My only issue happens to be with the beancounters , that might cause an issue and hamper development. You shouldn't mortgage a house over a car. A car depreciates, whereas a house appreciates over time. And with some of the 0% down deals, and/or financing up to 6 years, EH it's all possible.
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Speaking of, this story relates to the product of the Futura and where it could be built. http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=5731 Source: Automotive News |
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Just delivered our 3 month old grandson back to mom and dad. Had to move the passenger seat forward to get the little guy's seat to snap into place. Of course this wasn't an issue when I ordered the car. Child safety seats have definitely created a different car buying decisions, than when our two boys were kids. Understand why my daughter-in-law wanted a mini-van. She truly loved her Civic, but no way now. Man those rear facing child seats take up a ton of space. Really pointed out what you've being talking about. What really bother's me is the economics of the mini-van, so many more families would benefit from the mini-van space. Practical, utilitarian, affordable/economical vehicles have got to be the industries biggest challenge? Nightmare might be more appropriate? Especially when I think of the image issue which to me is way more important in NA. than it should be. IMHO SUV's &&^^$#$% Since I was raised by parents who grew up it in the depression era and dad was a very patriotic survivor of Iwo Jima, I have a strong angst towards waste and lack of pride. Sort of a "semi tree-hugger" mentality. A steward of the land, I like to think, with a logical/common sense approach. This SUV craze just bits! So if the Futura some how manages to have useable back seat or the option to have one built-in?, be economical/affordable and still be drivers car, it should be a big hit. Of course now that I just remembered the 60's horse-power race, can marketing sway the buying public, that practical, affordable and fun to drive is cooler than sitting up high? (and Ohio winter driver's supposed savoir 4wd) Not sure if that's possible? Like Mazda's Hmmmmmm--Oh whata RPJ feeling!!! This country seems to be so much more diverse than during the WW II generation. Now I know why growing-up my elders preached about keeping an open mind, do it right the first time, pride etc.. WW II generation is/was a much more forward thinking group than us rebellious 60's gen realized. OOPS getting sentimental, see now????, what was I talking about? Anyhow I think my statement about mortgaging the house for a car was just my failed attempt at (English composition/communicating my real feelings thing). **** I'd be absolutely tickled if the Futura is a driver's car. Yes let's hope the bean counters don't blow it? (I have a feeling this caused most of problems for the Contique's in NA. IMHO) because I know this country had/has a fine group of engineers. Tell me this (your opinion) how is it then the Japanese vehicles have been so reliable? Japanese's governments funding early on, but after that. Or this reliability thing a figment of everyone's imagination. The 89 vintage Japanese vehicles seem to have more value/reliability than the present. IHMO Why is it we Americans aren't allowed to have pride in our jobs/work, as I noticed in Deutschland? 69-70 era? A product of the times we live in??? I recently met a former U-boat sailor at Lowes (weird/ironic/neat experience) who was retired tool-die maker from the GM body panel plant in our area. He travels every year to the U-boat reunions, he was not proud of his country. That was definitely a shock to me, since my wife's grandparents left Germany before the war, so I'm well acquainted of that generations pride in their country (Not Hitler's Germany) Several PBS programs indicate that Japanese present generation's ethics have slipped,also. Maybe it's just a product of realizing/understanding ORF's really don't like change or maybe it's because my WW II baby-boomers generation is not being catered to anymore Hmmmm spoiled? Hi Hi It's get soooo confusing trying to keep an open mind!! I'm a little crank-up today, yesterday I did something I managed to stay out of during my 67-70 stint in the Army --- a 10 minute ride in a Huey and in the gunner's seat to boot. Not something that was possible to the public until a few years ago. www.armyav.org a Ist Cav's Huey with 1296 mission's in Nam . Obviously many hours of restoration! TNX Paul Echelberger N8BUU You own a dealership???? **** It's only took me 2 hrs w/spell check and the good ole word processor program assisting to finally get it right. I hope! Like I said about keeping an open mind!!! One more thing the how about Ford offerings How about this a winter drivers option (dealer installed even) in lieu of the 4wd a Torsen diff. Ford could go back to rear wheel drive cars (much cheaper to build etc etc????) RWD because that dreaded torque steer issue. The bias ratio for FWD application, from my understanding can't be high enough. I got dad's ole 93 E-150 I love to give it a try out, first hand feel. Trying to find a $deal$ on a Torsen and some many I've asked have poop-pood the idea. (Mainly IMHO lack of or no experience using) No electronics/sensors just plain simple gears I know many vehicle's have used it quite successfully. I know the Hummers use three, man I wish the little ole 1/4 ton Jeeps I had to use would have a Torsens. I've experience the limited-slip/maintenance hog rear ends, I feel from comments (I've heard and not actually use though) that the Torsen would be the the real deal. Especially when the quantity issue bought the price down. It must be like the ABS issue Anthony, that the industry favors the electronic traction control stuff on 4wd? How hard could it be to at least offer this for the work F-models. The extra cost of the 4wd and MPG/maintenance issue (economics) the guy trying to make a living with his pick-up would like to try it. I know so many full size truck owners need the size and limited off road abilities for construction, farmer and etc, that have to travel so far any more to keep working. This Torsen option would be the bang for the buck for them and the gas/budget crunch their in. Just remembered dad raving about getting up his driveway cause of the traction control on his Lincoln LS. However after I drove it the winter of 2001 it had to spin way too much before it kick in. The tires were new the winter of 2000 that dad drove it. The Torsen would be soo much better from winter drivers. Bang for the buck IMHO semi-treehugger's point of view. Ah yes the other issue wrong or worn tires on SUV's!!! Sure hope you're doing marketing research after all this I'm exhausted Hi hi 3hours now Paul |
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