Last post on Apr 08, 2009 at 7:01 AM
You are in the Cadillac STS/STS-V
What is this discussion about?
Cadillac STS, Cadillac STS-V, Sedan
#667 of 1325 Re: STS in dealerships? [rayainsw]
Jul 20, 2004 (5:07 pm)
You guys have gotten my "juices" going about this 2005 STS. Finally "rear wheel drive", "AWD", etc., some of the things that should have been coming out of Cadillac years ago. My problem is that we currently own a 2001 STS, and of 8 previous Cadillacs, it stands alone in the multiple problem category. Certainly not a vehicle to own out of warranty. That being said, I've always liked the "Caddys". My wife is pushing for a Jag sedan, but maybe this new STS could fill the bill. I'll be waiting for the local dealer to have one to drive. ( I know, two entirely different cars but I've always been averse to owning foreign -- but Brit would be better than some)
Life is Better at the Beach
#668 of 1325 Show the car
Jul 21, 2004 (5:24 pm)
My Caddy dealer said he will have the STS on the
floor by the end of July.... Waiting to see and
test drive it.
#669 of 1325 Re: STS in dealerships? [quemfala]
Jul 21, 2004 (5:32 pm)
Also own a 2001 Seville with 53000 miles. No problems with vehicle.
I have owned new Cadillac's since the 70s. Anxious to drive the STS.
Go American - Go Caddy....
Jul 28, 2004 (6:44 am)
Well, I am certain that much smarter people than me run Caddy marketing, but here is my take on pricing:
A – Almost fully loaded STS (1SG, Perf. Handling - but no HUD / adaptive cruise) at $61+K or so is certainly a lot of money for most folks. It definitely is for me. (See below.)
B – I do not see another American competitor for the STS. 300+ HP / TQ, RWD, Luxury as well as Sport, etc. The reviews have been quite favorable – but both C+D and R&T road tests did refer to the pricing.
C – As only a single reference point on the curve, another vehicle of potential interest to me - probably sometime late next year, is the Jaguar S-Type R. This is a sporting 4-door sedan with 390 hp and 399 TQ, a 6-speed automatic and a pretty aggressive suspension / brake package. Equipped as close to comparable as I can specify, their MSRPs are within a few bucks of each other. (’05 Jag = $61,296 = interestingly, this is over $4K less than an equivalent ’04 version.) The biggest drawback to me personally is the lack of a ‘man-u-matic’ feature for the automatic gearbox. (Sigh.) But it certainly is one quick car. I have seen reviews that suggest 13.X quarter mile times at over 100 mph. Yummy. And my experience driving a few contemporary Jags suggests that it would be a rewarding car to drive.
D – One other potentially interesting vehicle to me is the Audi A6 4.2. It appears that a well equipped version of the ’05, when introduced later this Fall, will likely be in $55 - 56K range. Although it is too early for published tests of US spec. A6 models, I think this new A6 in V8 form is likely to provide similar accommodations and performance to the RWD STS. [AWD, for me, currently living in North Georgia, is of no particular interest. And the additional weight is actually a small drawback, but clearly no RWD version of the A6 will be built, so . . .]
Anyway, my point here is not to say that the STS pricing is wrong – or right. But it certainly does not strike me as a screaming bargain. I could probably afford something like $57 - 58K, assuming some nominal discount from MSRP with a, ummm, “lifestyle change” here and there. But, I am just not yet convinced that the additional value is in line with the additional price being asked, for me. Let me repeat that: for me!
Caveat. My ‘benchmark’ regarding the additional value includes this context: I currently drive a Lincoln – an LS V8 Sport, purchased new – for approx. $33K early this year. This was a leftover 2003 model, equipped as I wanted it, and available for roughly Invoice less $6,000 – without spending much time or effort negotiating. And, while I will concede that an ’05 STS is a significantly better vehicle, in many respects, I personally do not see $24 +/- K more value in this vehicle compared to what I now drive. For me.
OTOH, an ’05 STS, if one with acceptable colors and options could be purchased new, as a leftover in the early months of 2006 (almost 18 months from now) for invoice less say $8 - 10,000 (meaning something like $46 to $48K) then – well, we’ll see if / when that time comes . . . And if I am in the market.
So – the STS may make my short list for next purchase.
Just my $.03 worth, precisely adjusted for years of inflation.
Still intending to drive one, but . . .
#672 of 1325 Re: pricing
Jul 28, 2004 (5:48 pm)
I agree with many of the comments on STS over-pricing. Whether this car can demand this sort of money is not yet clear. Caddy's have not held their value like Lexus, BMW or Mercedes and my guess is that a buyer looking for a 60K car might well look at the others first. I recall when the first Lexus 400 hit the streets (circa 1990), they were priced at around 35K. They sold well, established themselves quickly as being well-built, reliable, luxurious and retained their value. Within two years, Lexus was regularly moving prices upward but buyers were hooked on the quality/resale/etc. My suggestion would have been for Caddy to price the STS a few K lower for starters, then if it took off, they could easily adjust the prices upward. If they don't get the buyers from the start, they may never establish a repeat volume. It looks like this is going to be a pretty good car and I hope it sells - but - I think Caddy would have guaranteed that by making it somewhat more price attractive initially.
#673 of 1325 Re: pricing [pearl]
Jul 29, 2004 (12:51 pm)
Cadillac is really not a new brand like Lexus. Its not like the are starting from Scratch. No, they have been around for 100 Years. That should factor into the equation. Meanwhile, Cadillac’s are holding up their value. Check out Auto trader for a Used CTS. Its not cheap.
#674 of 1325 Re: pricing [mbukukanyau]
Jul 29, 2004 (3:32 pm)
The problem is that they are not starting from scratch; they are starting from less than scratch. They lost the luxury car crown to other makes because of cheap shortcuts and screw-ups. Now they have to try to overcome that history and claw their way back up the reputation heap. If they really have their act together with the product, selling them at a lower price for a while might be a good move.
Jul 30, 2004 (5:08 am)
I'm not sure given what I've seen that the STS pricing is really out of line. The comparison to the Jaguar S-type is a good one, but there are others. Most people don't think that BMWs are great values (in fact, lousy), but they command top dollar on reputation and street cred.
For the top dollar prices of a 545i (55K for an automatic), a V8 STS starts below 50K. The real deal for a lot people will be the 255 HP V6 STS. It starts at around $41K, just like the 525i and the Cadillac gives you significantly more horsepower. Even the 3.0L V6 found in the 530i only give you 225 HP and will cost you 45K to get into that vehicle for a base price.
Cadillac learned from the SRX that they can sell a lot of V6 versions if they give the customers a choice. Cadillac offers all three major option packages with the V6 engine on this car. How many 545i's do you see on the road versus their 525i and 530i sisters? I think it you crunch the numbers and do the comparisons, Cadillac had a good story here.
#676 of 1325 STS features and marketing
Jul 30, 2004 (5:22 am)
I was in my local dealership yesterday, and although the STS is still a few weeks away from being delivered to a dealer showroom, the product brochures are available so I picked up one and was pleasantly surprised by a few things.
First, Cadillac spends a lot of time and pages dissecting the engineering of the car, which tells me that they sincerely believe that the engineering is competitive to everything else out there. There are photos of the bare chassis, cross sections, bare engine blocks (V6 & V8) and transmission.
Second, the fold-out centerfold of the brochure is the dashboard, which means that they obviously think the interior is competitive. One thing about the top of the line 15 speaker Bose system is that for the first time in Bose history, it seems that they are trying to support standards in the video and audio business. In addition to being able to display DVD movies on the large touch screen when the vehicles is in park, the new system supports DTS audio discs and DVD-audio discs. In fact, Cadillac boasts that this is the first application of a 6-DVD changer in a vehicle as opposed to just a CD-changer.
More to come as I finish reading the rest of the details...