Last post on Apr 08, 2009 at 7:01 AM
You are in the Cadillac STS/STS-V
What is this discussion about?
Cadillac STS, Cadillac STS-V, Sedan
Jul 06, 2004 (4:26 am)
I'm not sure I buy the argument that the STS is too expensive. I might have until you start learning what it costs to get comparable 545i and E500 models. Those guys are way expensive and Cadillac seems to have a comparable story here. The STS is also $5000 cheaper as a base car compared to the older Seville, but that car didn't have a V6 as an starter.
The key will be product mix. Cadillac learned the hard way that the car business is not like Apple building Macintosh computers where often at product launch, the most expensive models go quickly right out of the gate. I'm starting to see a lot more SRXs on the road now, most with V6 engines. The STS has 6(!) different major options groups, and I'm sure that a lot of attention has been paid to the modeling of what gets sent to the dealers early, with any needed changes at a moment's notice.
Finally, Cadillac is still trying to find it's new street cred footing with the competition, but I think I'm starting to see a pattern: close but slightly more aggressive in styling, performance and handling than Mercedes. They will give up the raw performance figures to BMW (so does Mercedes) on the normal models and then compete with them squarely in the V-series. I thinkk the performance numbers may improve a bit with the 6 speed trany due in 2006, but GM needs a 7 speed slushbox to compete with Mercedes/BMW now.
Jul 06, 2004 (10:18 am)
The SRX on the new side has certainly taken a hit because of the program cars that are out there. I just sold one for 38-39K w/2900 miles (V8, 3rd row, etc.). The customer was just strolling through and looked at the V8's on our lot for 50-51K. They had checked Rainiers for $40Kish and to buy the SRX w/ Certified 6yr/100K mile warranty was a no brainer. They were leaning towards the Caddy anyway, but that sealed the deal. I don't think there will be a ton more (obviously nothing like Seville/Deville program/rentals.)
The STS will be interesting because it is a player according to the auto mags but will it catch on? I think it will. Like most cars, the "as tested" price is high, buy that is not what matters. They buy the $45K car but "it does everything the $65,000 car does, pretty much". A vast majority of these will be sold in the $50K dollar range. The high price is because there are more options (adaptive cruise,AWD, etc.) They will keep the 70/30 mix and it will be successful.
BTW, Eaton seems pretty close on a lot of his observations.
#647 of 1325 Re: What Edmunds Says [mbukukanyau #626]
Jul 06, 2004 (11:00 am)
Audi consistently is ranked very highly from a "quality" perspective. Audi, too, often ranks very highly or "in the top class" of performance and safety.
What I, and many others, lament is the low "reliability" of many of the German brands (Audi included). I agree that reliability is important, but some of the most reliable cars I have ever owned were of very poor quality. Recent Audis consistently are lauded with praise by most of the "Car" magazines.
The Cadillac, fine as it may be, does not yet have the je ne sais quois that even Audi, BMW and Mercedes have despite their less than stellar reliability (but high quality) ratings.
Hence, my comment something like, "in a world where I made the rules, the new STS would be priced much more aggressively (a la Lexus in the early days) -- in the same vein as Chryco priced the the 300C aggressively) perhaps unbundling some of the options, too."
Please don't think I believe the STS should be priced THE SAME AS a Chrysler 300C, it is just that several of the reviews of the 300C (at about $36K) have suggested that the 300C "feels like" a $45K car. The $62,500 version of the STS if it were brought to an MSRP of $55K would (or should) roll off the showroom floor and put the fear in some of the German and Japanese high lux nameplates. Then, like Lexus, price could be brought up to "content" "equivalency."
The STS, at this point, for ME, seems like too much money (but part of the reason is that I want the AWD version, and it just seems over the top to bundle the option groups so that the only way to get such an STS is to opt for the over $60,000 MSRP.)
That is, uh, IMHO, "unfortunate."
#648 of 1325 Re: What Edmunds Says [markcincinnati #647]
Jul 06, 2004 (12:11 pm)
The only flaw I have seen among magazines in the STS interior quality is the plastics around the radio. If one wants to pick at the little things in a car, there is plenty in any car…
STS is praised for offering the same level of technology as the German cars, without having to retrain people how to drive and interface with the car… like the famous idrive and Audi… ease of use is key….to technological interface, that is what Microsoft windows is all about( Making it easy for Joe to work on a computer without attending MIT..), idrive has not done anything good for BMW in the NA market, I do not know about Europe.
I do not know how one can speak of quality without including reliability as one aspect of quality…..The Deutschmobiles are no where near GM especially Buick and Cadillac…. In reliability
#649 of 1325 Re: What Edmunds Says [markcincinnati #647]
Jul 06, 2004 (12:47 pm)
"it is just that several of the reviews of the 300C (at about $36K) have suggested that the 300C "feels like" a $45K car."
I've actually driven the 300C, SRX and CTS. The 300C is really fast in a straight line, but it suffers from a weight problem and can't touch the Caddys in their athleticism.
In short, the 300C is a one dimensional modern day muscle car, whereas the Caddys are the complete package. I expect the STS to be the most complete package of all and well worth the premium over a 300C.
#650 of 1325 Cadillac vs Chrsler? No way!
Jul 06, 2004 (1:52 pm)
In no way was I comparing the actual cars to each other (the Cadillac and the Chrysler) -- simply the pricing at the "market entry point."
I do not think the cars are comparable, I meant only to suggest a pricing scheme that would allow me to opt for an STS V8, and click off MagnaRide and AWD and perhaps some sound system options without going for the full-on $13,000 option bundle. Moreover, I meant to suggest that although Cadillac has made great strides in its products in the past few years, that the cars still on the showroom floor with the badge STS, etc, are not likely to attract those who are driving enthusiasts -- the need, I was suggesting, was to price the cars "not based on where they are going or soon will be, but where they are likely perceived to be at this juncture."
The Germans, crappy quality or reliability or whatever term we may settle on, are "perceived" by many to be of the highest quality (separate from reliability, I'm afraid to say) -- few American cars have achieved this -- although wait fifteen minutes and, well, the tide (the perception) is changing.
I am rooting for Cadillac, indeed, I am rooting for American automobiles of all ilks. The fact that I even considered the new STS was something that even two years ago I would never have done.
Now, however, I find a pricing and bundling scheme that seems a bit presumptuous -- and premature.
Like most of what is written here, it is just an opinion.
Finally, although I agree that "a" component of quality "ought" (normative) to be reliability, it seems -- to read Car, Car and Driver, and the rest, that it rarely is.
I certainly hope that, at the very least, it will be possible to so configure a new STS so that one does not have to "order everything" just to get AWD.
But that's just me, apparently.
#651 of 1325 Re: Cadillac vs Chrsler? No way! [markcincinnati #650]
Jul 06, 2004 (4:57 pm)
"I meant only to suggest a pricing scheme that would allow me to opt for an STS V8, and click off MagnaRide and AWD."
I absolutely agree. AWD, Magnaride and a sunroof should be stand alone options, available no matter what else you get.
Jul 07, 2004 (1:52 pm)
Let's be careful about veering into arguments based on subjective comparisons, especially when no one on this board can provide first-hand ownership experience yet!
#653 of 1325 Re: Autoweek Story [b4z]
Jul 08, 2004 (9:17 am)
I've driven a Lincoln LS with the Heated/Cooled seats that work pretty well. This article makes mention of seats that "wick moisture away" rather than providing cool air. I can't see how it would work to cool me off. The only thing I see happening is the seat absorbing my perspiration. Does anybody have experience with the system?