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Cadillac STS/STS-V: What's New for 2007?

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#366 of 1325 Consumers Reports and the STS... by pearl Mar 09, 2004 (6:28 pm)
just read the CR "2004 Cars" edition for April '04. While the STS obviously is not yet included, the "reliability" marks for Caddies is ugly. CTS gets a solid black circle (poor) as does the Seville and Escalade. The Deville gets a half black circle (worse than average) while the SRX is "too new" to be rated. As for depreciation, all rated Caddies are average to below average. Folks, this is NOT what Cadillac needs to send to the world as the STS is introduced. There is an email from Cadillac earlier in this thread which talks about quality, fit/finish/etc. Like it or not, the Japanese kick our butts in all of these categories, and while a recent survey said that European marques were declining vs. US brands, CR does not reflect that yet, and at minimum, their depreciation levels are MUCH better than U.S. brands. If I am the Cadillac GM and read this report, I would have subordinates in my office the next morning to figure out how to make the next CR report MUCH better. Some of this may trace to "bad" dealers, but ultimately it all comes home to roost at Cadillac's front door. They don't need it, especially as they near the launch of the STS - BMW killer, and neither do those of us who hope to one day be Caddy owners.
#367 of 1325 by theo2709 Mar 09, 2004 (6:51 pm)
Something is very wrong with the CR report. JD Power rated the CTS with 88 problems per 100 vehicles, third best for any car in North America.
#368 of 1325 by ateixeira Mar 10, 2004 (7:28 am)
JDP looks at just the first 90 days in their IQ study. They do have a 5 year durability study, though.   CR looks long-term, new, 3 years, 5 years, ...   -juice
#369 of 1325 CR/Cadillac by tornado25 Mar 10, 2004 (8:20 am)
I don't want to start a CR flame war, but what I will say applied to JDP/Choicepoint/CR, all of them. These surveys, to an extent, are similiar to these boards.   There are diehards, regulars here who come here to talk about their CTS because they love it--which is cool! But, most people stumble onto a board specifically to complain or ask a question about a problem.   So, take the JDP initial reliability study. If I'm a Joe Schmo CTS owner and I get the survey in the mail and I've had no problems, but I'm not an "enthusiast" or otherwise am ambivalent, I probably don't return the survey. However, if I've had problems, you can bet JDP is going to hear about it. At least JDP to an extent is statistically sound, as they choose a sample of all CTS owners and send them a survey. They can't control response rates, except to note it in the margin of error.   CR, OTOH, only sends surveys to its readers. Maybe CR readership is a sound statistical sample of CTS owners. But, we don't know that--maybe only after a problem does that owner buy CR. Or, maybe the reader is an overanalytical worrier who researches everything and used CR in his purchase.   In any event, let's say CR readership is demographically representative. Their responses still are driven in the same way as JDP's--people with problems or are just complainers are more likely to reply than people that may be perfectly happy, just aren't gung ho about cars and don't realize a response of all "goods" is just as important as a reply of all "poors".   In any event, I just can't bring myself to accept CR's data because I don't *believe* it to be demographically representative. JDP isn't perfect, but IMO is more statistically sound.
#370 of 1325 by ateixeira Mar 10, 2004 (8:23 am)
JDP emphasizes their IQ study, which only covers the first 90 days! Who cares? It's under warranty anyway, and it's only a forecast of how reliability will turn out.   That might matter if you lease a new car every 2 years. But give me long-term info any day, far more useful.   Their Durability Study at least has *some* significance.   -juice
#371 of 1325 ateixeira by tornado25 Mar 10, 2004 (1:19 pm)
"JDP emphasizes their IQ study, which only covers the first 90 days! Who cares? It's under warranty anyway, and it's only a forecast of how reliability will turn out."   You're absolutely right. But, the one thing it does help with is determines how well the car is put together from the very get. That is, is Caddy's probs/100 go down over time, that tells me they are doing a better job putting together the car or paying more attention to detail, etc. Aside from that, it doesn't do much else.   I was reading an article today that was linked somewhere (I think in the Chrysler 300 board) that pointed out that the car with the most problems today has fewer problems than the best car 10 or 20 years ago. The point? Our expectations have become so high that any squeak, rattle or minor failure is a big deal. FWIW--but that improvment makes it that much harder to judge who *really* is good and who isn't.
#372 of 1325 by ateixeira Mar 10, 2004 (1:50 pm)
You would think so, but not necessarily.   The fact that the H2 got poor scores for gas mileage does not mean it was put together poorly.   It's silly that they even factor that in, that's not a quality issue. It's burning gas just fine (actually, TOO well, LOL).   They also factored in the Mini's cup holder design. Gimme a break.   -juice
#373 of 1325 CR Caddie marks... by pearl Mar 10, 2004 (6:06 pm)
I agree that the CR commentary re problems/reliability/etc are very subjective; however, they do base their results on real data (and not just onesy-twosy inputs). Bottom line is that the CR ratings make the Caddy line look very bad in terms of reliabilty and potential trade-in value. Whether anyone likes it or not, CR is the "gold standard" for rating/evaluating cars in America - at least those most likely to be purchased by non-exotic buyers. Millions of people read their magazine and accept it as their bible for every type of purchase. Bottom line is that Caddilac MUST do better on quality re STS....
#374 of 1325 by ateixeira Mar 11, 2004 (7:43 am)
Well, after seeing the success of the CTS, I think they might be willing to invest a little more in quality control and materials cost.   -juice
#375 of 1325 by cornellpremed Mar 11, 2004 (8:41 pm)
There's a strong correlation between the cars that do well on JD Power's IQS, and their long term survey.   The Consumer Reports results are just bogus. I remember when the "black circle" for the CTS came out. It was a while back, not long after JD Power declared the CTS to be the 5th most well built car sold in America (after 2 Lexuses, and 2 Chevrolets).   Something ain't right with the CR survey. I think their sample size must have been vanishingly small. Then again, their methods in general are much more suspect than JD Power's.

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