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SUVs BMW X3 & X5 BMW X3
3287 messages, Last post on Nov 14, 2009 at 6:14 PM
You are in the BMW X3 & X5 Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & tidester
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Replying to: tidester (Jul 25, 2006 7:57 pm) Maybe it comes down to this. Everyone prefers the most reliable car possible, or,to put it another way, nobody wants to pay for repairs. However, if the pure pleasure of driving is more important, and if you factor in superior engineering, safety, low cost lease or low depreciation rate, the feeling of a car that has some spirit and is not just an appliance...well, if these things are important, then what's a few hundred bucks a year in repairs. You might even keep the car longer or buy it back after the lease because you don't get tired of it.....in other words it could cost less because you will keep it longer. (I had a 10 year Mercedes loaner once and I would buy that over most new cars). Many people get a lot of joy out of trying to buy the most efficient vehicle possible and if they base their decision on practicality then they have to decide what is the base limit of their practicality. If they believe there is joy in the feeling you get from the engineering and beauty and spirit of the vehicle I think you would go with the X3. I agree, nothing wrong with a Timex. I have had many myself, but my wife got me a (designer watch to embarassing to say the name) so I wear that! 
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Replying to: driver100 (Jul 25, 2006 5:03 pm)
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Replying to: bargamon (Jul 26, 2006 6:28 am)  My ski buddy has a nephew who is a BMW mechanic. He loves the cars and talked his father into flying to Bavaria to pick one up. But, he advises selling them after the free repair period (4 years, right?) since after warranty repairs tends to be expensive. His Dad will keep his longer than that, but it helps when your son is working for the dealer.
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Replying to: driver100 (Jul 25, 2006 5:03 pm) Really? You really think the manufacturer "respects" you, cares about you, wants you to be safe and sound, nice and happy? You wouldn't think, by any slight chance, that they only want your money?  You want safety, so they build safety. If enough people wanted, oh say, a big red gumball on top of the hood, out of "respect" for them, what do you think would start showing up on cars??! 
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Replying to: bargamon (Jul 26, 2006 6:28 am) Tercel was a Timex! It was crumpled from the front end right up to the windshield. The radiator was detached, but the headlights still lit up and the engine though it took a lickin, kept on tickin. He drove it off the road and onto a parking lot. |
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Replying to: steve_ (Jul 26, 2006 7:38 am) I might do that, on the other hand, the older BMW's get, the more beautiful they become (better with age). Few cars look better than a 10 or 20 year old BMW or Mercedes. So, you could save money or at least have a real show piece and it might cost less than trading every 3 or 4 years. |
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Replying to: driver100 (Jul 26, 2006 4:14 am) Perhaps the analogy with watches isn't really all that good. I can think of only three criteria that are important in deciding which watch to buy - reliability, cost and style - in that order. On the other hand, there are probably dozens of factors that go into one's car purchasing decisions. I have yet to see a single web site devoted to comparing watch brands (there may be but I just haven't seen any) while automotive sites come in all sizes, flavors and hues. tidester, host
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Replying to: bodble2 (Jul 26, 2006 8:13 am) Yes I do. i think European car makers take pride in their craftsmanship. If it didn't sell more cars they might not bother, but I think they do want to make the car as technologically advanced and engineered the best it can be within the price range. I believe this because they study accidents to try and make the car more crash worthy. On the other hand you have a Monte Carlo which doesn't even offer side-airbags. They just have to try to sell what they can and not spend any money to update it. I like the idea of that round red light on the hood though!! My brother tried all kinds of smaller cars. Even Toyotas you had to pay extra for ABS. He bought a Jetta because ABS is standard equipment. VW could have made the car cheaper by leaving ABS as an option, but I think it would be embarassing to them. I'm not saying BMW cares about me really when it comes down to it. But, I think in the case of the Monte Carlo they show no respect or pride in their workmanship if they sell a car without as many safety devices as possible in this day and age. I give VW a lot of credit for making ABS standard equipment even though others leave it out to make their price lower. It isn't really respect for their customers in the sense that they really care, but they take enough pride...or maybe don't want to be embarrassed, that they try to make a car as safe as possible, whereas GM can put a car on the market which shows total disrespect for the customer. |
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Replying to: tidester (Jul 26, 2006 9:36 am) I think you are right on with this synopsis, I will keep it mind when I buy my next watch!! 
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. . .but I started a very very generalized thread of conversations and perhaps some slight controversy over on the LPS forum when I postulated that there are three different kinds of buyers: American, European (but mostly German) and Asian (but mostly Japanese.) The speculation that was somewhat criticized for being too general and was, apparently, most supported is that those who gravitate to Japanese cars do so for reasons other than "the experience behind the wheel" often for reliability and durability (and ability to bypass service intervals without too many consequences.) Those who seem to embrace the German cars are wont to talk about their cornering capabilities and mostly aspects of the driving experience. Japanese car buyers seem to (generally) want as much isolation as possible from sound and feel -- an observation that those who buy the Japanese brands often talk about how quiet and comfortable they are, rarely mentioning how a certain corner can be taken at triple the posted speed with aplomb and with a downshift at the apex and a full-throttle controlled exit (perhaps with a hint of throttle steering to boot.) American car buyers often are quick to indicate a certain sense of Pride in the ownership of an American product -- and often are quite happy to discuss straight line acceleration. It is difficult to evoke much conversation about "driving" or the more visceral (other than straight line "git up and go!")characteristics of "the automobile" from American or Japanese owners. These days, much of the American car talk is around the new holy grail: third row seating, and the refinement of many of the American SUV's and pickup trucks. Sporting Sedan owners and shoppers seem keen to wax poetic about German driving 'sheens -- not so much the Japanese and American owners and shoppers. None of these owner traits is wrong or bad, nor is one better than the other -- what is important is what will make you a satisfied, happy and enthusiastic owner. What will make YOU rebuy the "country of origin." It is damn near impossible to get "unhooked" -- and this is due in large measure, I think, to the match of "your personality" and the "car's country of design, engineering and even build somewhat." The Infiniti M35X impressed me MOST as the closest to the German "feel" and I almost bought one -- at the last minute, I went back to Audi and got an A6. After numerous Audis, three TT's in a row in fact, my wife shopped Japanese, American and German and pretty much had decided to go with an A4 3.2, until she drove an X3 3.0 with the sport package and the 6 speed manual. It was all over then. We had driven the 330xi, the G35X, the Acura TL, the Mercedes C AWD version, a Saab, a Cadillac SRX, a Jeep Grand with the HEMI and on and on and on. The SRX with MagnaRide -- still even NOW -- believe it or not was a pretty close second for my wife, the lack of a stick shift probably threw it to the X3. The Mercedes complete abandonment of sticks, too, ruled them out. Even the 330xi cannot be had with a proper sport package, including sport suspension, seats, tires and wheels -- and servotronic, natch. The X3 was not derived as far as I can tell from a truck -- it has crisp 3 series handling -- can be "dolled up" with the sport, lux and electronic bits lux and near lux buyers have come to expect. It has a smooth as BUTTA engine that with the 6 speed is not underpowered (as it is when equipped with the 5 speed stutter-tronic -- although this will be remedied in MY 2007 with the 6 speed Steptronic and the high output (non turbo version) of the 3.0 with at least 255HP and better gas mileage.) If you are in lust with the Toyota you will probably not "get the X3" -- if you are a German car - type personality (way over generalized, I know) you will wonder "where's the beef" with the Toyota. Both types of personalities are good, acceptable, moral, decent, frugal and in their own way "fun" even. But, the differences are real. You probably won't enjoy the German car if you cut your teeth on Japanese cars and if your "crowd" is mostly full of Japanese car drivers. And, vice versa. If your peer group is totally mini-vans and pick-em-up trucks the X3 will seem flimsy and not very capable. The X3 is an SAV -- not an off-road SUV by any stretch. It can run with the sport sedan crowd within limits, and can at least hang with the SUV's without embarrassing itself. It is, however, mostly a sport sedan with some utility and space -- but it is most exciting when equipped with the stick. Virtually no one else offers this combination today. I submit, that there is no Toyota that even comes close. Conversely, if your "attitude" is more in keeping with Toyota's values and attributes, there is probably no way you will be happy with any BMW. Get what is "you" that is.
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