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SUVs BMW X3 & X5 BMW X3
3287 messages, Last post on Nov 14, 2009 at 6:14 PM
You are in the BMW X3 & X5 Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & tidester
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Replying to: mpereira123 (May 30, 2006 6:51 am) All of what I have said must also be said to include: "we love our X3." We test drove the 3.0 and the 2.5 with the automatic over a period of days. They had ONE 3.0 6speed manual and we tried the back to back to back thing too -- theses were two different cars. Now, perhaps, had we used the step mode of the steptronic we would have come away with a different opinion. My wife will NOT use the manumatic in manu mode, plain and simple. This was a disappointment (to me) to think this great little SAV (little, being not an exactly correct sentiment) was brought to market with such a lame transmission (and the thing seems to sell well despite the fact.) This is a great car with the stick, tho!
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Replying to: bargamon (May 29, 2006 7:47 pm) Please keep us posted on each car she tries out. It would be fun to know her impressions. If going the Avalon route, Lexus, Honda, Infinity or Accura might be worth a try.
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Replying to: driver100 (May 30, 2006 8:14 am) She harkens back to the 1950's when "daddy" had an imperial or the best of buicks and Olds. Was "too showy" back then for a Caddy! The thought the RX330 was gonna be great because it was a "lexus"! She is a pure thru and thru with no shame a true "nameplate slut"! I am wondering if a ride in an X3 for grins and giggles migh do. Why? "BMW"! Current 2nd car is a 1993 Volvo v70 turbo sport wagon which she claims drives "like a truck"! She hated the Honda pilot, Tribeca, infiiti FX and forsome reason they (with dad) drove an Audi A4 wagon which they never got off the lot. Duh!
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Replying to: bargamon (May 30, 2006 10:05 am) Yeh, a video would be great. They should have a reality show...watching people test drive cars. Have to agree about Volvo's of that vintage being like a truck. Soon after 93 Ford bought them and really ruined them...our 95 had more problems than any car I have owned, had to get out of the lease early. I think you are narrowing it down. Keep us posted. |
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Replying to: markcincinnati (May 30, 2006 8:06 am)
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Replying to: bodble2 (May 30, 2006 10:16 pm) The only other people I know who have openly and repeatedly been critical of the 5 speed step (in the X3) are the sales people at the dealership, the service advisors at the dealership, the wash techs at the dealership, the finance manager at the dealership -- and the owner of the dealership. He and several of the staff members have or have had both versions. Of course while we were in the discussion process they said little. Once we decided, it is as if we had taken the "right path" and we were welcomed into the club with the secret handshake. Drive -- long long drive -- the auto and the manual back to back, carving up some twisties, going on both flat and varying grades at around town speeds and at somewhat extra legal speeds. The character of the two X3's is different -- this does NOT make the step bad. It does what it is told by the combination of software instructions and capabilities it has within this application. On the other hand, you are correct, both my wife and I grew further and further apart from the advancing trend toward auto transmissions over the past 10+ years. With so many German cars (mostly Audis, in full disclosure) "under our belts" we came to know and loathe a trait that became known as "tip" lag then "step" lag, etc. It seemed that once Porsche (?) started down the manu-matic path, all the Germans seemed hell-bent to adopt clutchless manuals (not in the SMG or DSG sense, of course) and lo and behold the suppliers of the auto transmissions for many German (and other) automakers brought forth one generation after another of transmissions programmed to upshift early and downshift late (with respect to the engine's torque sweet spot(s)) -- all over the blogs here and elsewhere there have been (for years and years) complaints (some from me, some were defended by me) about the "lag" of this family of transmissions. Troubleshooting articles in non mfgr publications (from Audi and BMW, to name two) decried the emasculation of some of the cars equipped with these new manumatics. The makers did respond by adding an "S" (for sport) mode to the something tronic transmissions essentially a computer program that upshifted a bit later (100's of RPM's later) and returned to lower gears at rolling stops a bit earlier. Lag was masked and minimized thusly. Improved torque and horsepower continued in a normal fashion but these "dreadful" (an overstatement for effect) transmissions soldiered on. Then ZF (as I recall) in concert with Mercedes, BMW, Audi -- all the above perhaps -- moved down the path of "more better" auto transmissions. More forward speeds, lighter and faster and smoother weight and shifting characteristics ensued. Mercedes is now at 7 speeds, Audi has made the switch to 6 speeds and BMW largely has too. The X3 and X5 were notable in retaining the best of the last (not as good) generation of autotransmissions. The X3 is thirsty. Add the auto trans and it is thirstier still -- improve the responsiveness of the auto equipped version and it is thirstier and dirtier. We are at the "time between the parenthesis" as a famous author once wrote. Today with the 3.0 225HP engine and the 5 speed tiptronic the X3 (IMHO) is neither as economical, spirited, clean running or fun as it will soon be with the updated 255HP engine and hopefully a 6 or more speed automatic and the retention of the 6speed manual. Frankly with an ever growing appreciation for my own 6 speed tiptronic and multiple test drives of cars from several mfrgs (especially BMW) that have the 6 speed transmissions, I think I will be a fan of the new X3 so equipped with the new 3.0 and the new 6spd step. Mercedes stands out with its 7 speed transmission, but it is a virtual certainty that Audi and BMW will soon follow with their own take on the conventional auto transmissions and their own approach to the direct shift automatics (DSG and SMG from Audi and BMW respectively.) In the mean time, my opinion, my preference -- with nothing against YOUR choice -- remains the 6speed manual (at least until the 6speed step becomes an option.) Most folks at this juncture will NOT EVEN TEST drive the stick shift equipped versions. I submit they don't even know what they're missing. But it is your money, after all. Drive it like you live -- but the Emperor, to repeat, really doesn't have any clothes on. 
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Replying to: markcincinnati (May 31, 2006 4:05 am) I submit they don't even know what they're missing. But it is your money, after all. I have to agree with bodble2 on this one. I would love to have a stick shift, but it would make no sense for me with my driving patterns. Stick or auto....really depends on what suits you. I enjoy your comments Mark and your enthusiasm for the X3 and I wish that a stick would make sense for me....but I enjoy having an automatic. I think it changes gears a little more than necessary but I chalk it up to it's intelligence in seeking out the exact right gears. I find the X3 automatic is the ideal vehicle for me, and I don't think the idea that it is a totally inferior car because it is automatic is a fair comment. Also, applies to the fact I have a 2.5 by the way. I don't need a 3 litre and don't think it was worth an extra $4,000 to me! For some people a Malibu might suit them fine. Good basic transportation at a fair price. Not a whole lot of fun...but you have to allow for what actually suits the purchaser, not individual tastes.
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Replying to: driver100 (May 31, 2006 5:38 am) I have yet to drive a Stick version of the X3 and I don't have issue with it. It was quick and did a great job. If your a fan of the manual, and having this sweet BMW engine you will naturally gravitate to wanting control over it. To me, Mark states that the X3 is really nice but in Manual form its even better!
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Replying to: bargamon (May 31, 2006 6:15 am) You could be right, and maybe I am being over sensitive. No sticks? Pity. This thing is a blast with a stick and "challenged" with the 5speed stutter tronic.(Mark #2644). Like I said, I enjoy Mark's comments and his enthusiasm. However, I would like to point out some of us might like our automatics just fine. IMO Mark's writing, which is always enjoyable and knowledgeable...would be even better if it would just say...I prefer the stick because..... (no need to make a negative comment about someone else's preference unless it is using some factual information to back it up). It would take his comments, which are always interesting, informative, entertaining and certainly welcome, to a higher level. |
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I've been a manual driver for most of my life and got an automatic recently. The "fun" disappears when you spend a lot of time in a stop-and-go traffic. I would agree that X3 manual would be more fun. But I plan to get an X3 automatic for my wife when the lease on her Lexus expires (hopefully it will have the new engine and six speed auto). She went from a 3series wagon to Lexus SUV and would very much like to come back to BMW driving experience. Anyway, I felt that the steptronic on her 3 series was better than 90% of other automatics. I wouldn't mind it at all. It downshifted very well. Most of the automatics are very reluctant to downshift. Regarding BMW manuals, I had a six speed on my 3 series and thought that it could use some improvement (clutch engagement, shifter action, sixth gear too tall, etc..). It was better than Saab/Volvo/Toyota manuals but I still think that Honda makes the best manuals.
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