Last post on May 11, 2003 at 11:19 AM
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Lincoln Town Car, Sedan
May 03, 2003 (4:46 am)
The 2004 Town Car will not see any improvements, for 2003, enough was done. If anything, a few packages might be shuffled around, and a new Navigation system might be offered, but thats about it.
Also, these rumors of a larger V-12 engine, are not true. These came from a spy pic, as one was testing the 6.8 V-10 Triton engine. Making some journalists believe a V-12 version, was the answer to Cadillacs concept. When actually the V-10 was tested years ago, prior to Cadillac going upmarket as they are trying to do.
I do think they should offer the DOHC version of the 4.6L, which is now in the present Aviator, and this might be a viable option for the future. Although a 5.0L (bored out 4.6L, will definatly go into the vehicle, in a few years). Ford wont be concentrating much on this vehicle, and it will be phased out by 2008-2009, along with the Crown Vic and Grand Marquis. Probably be left for Limo conversions.
The Continental will fill the new flagship for Lincoln, so all these bigger engine rumors, will undoubtly occur in the new Continental. Also, Ford is not going upmarket with Lincoln, as GM is doing with Cadillac, so lets erase these notions that they MUST, to compete with the Jones'. Ford has Jaguar and Aston Martin in that segment.
#19 of 27 You speak with authority, Ant.....
May 03, 2003 (7:59 am)
can we rely on these statements? They sound logical. Do you have "local knowledge", or are you speculating with common sense? Looks to me like the T/C, GM & CV have already been pretty much relegated to livery stables, and they sell them retail on the side. So what you say makes sense to me.
May 03, 2003 (4:30 pm)
When I speculate, I'll state it before the sentence... like "I do think they should offer the 4.6L DOHC", while "although a 5.0L (bored out 4.6L) will definatly" is information that you might call local knowledge.
The reason these vehicles (TownCar, CrownVic, GrandMarquis) arent getting much attention, is because they pretty much have paid themselves off. The platform (while intensively re-engineered last year) is Body On Frame, and that doesn't appeal to many customers.
Benefits of Body On Frame, is durability, stronger in an accident, easily adaptable for limo/extended lengths. Thats why they are highly used as Taxi's, Cop Cars, rental, Limos use them, consider the abuse they are placed on in relation to those. NO FWD vehicle could deal with that, throw a FWD into a curb like the Crown Vic cops do, and there went your front axle.
Unfortunatly the Crown Vic has received negative media attention. Some police officers have parked on the side of the highway, and they've been hit at 70MPH and the cars have burst into flames. Pretty much ANY car would burst into flames being hit by an SUV at that speed, so certain states have banned Crown Vic purchases for their dept., pending investigations.
Investigations so far conclude they are safe, and there's "kits" that allow people to retrofit their gas tank to lessen the issue or rupture. I would like to see a Camry get rear ended at 70MPH by an SUV and see the same occur, but the media watchdogs haven't testing this theory out yet.
Therefore, CrownVic, GrandMarquis, TownCar sales have dwindled a bit. And just like the Taurus, it'll be left for fleet/rental sales eventually, all depending what the sales state.
So this leaves us with a question, will Ford produce a RWD vehicle to replace these vehicles, one that is Unibody, to combat the Chrysler 300C ? Yes, that option is being considered, and work to investigate if it's viable, is well underway. Ford is studying Ford Falcon of Australia, as the possible vehicle to this. The UAW (United Auto Workers) would have a canniption of Ford would do, what GM is doing with the Pontiac GTO, exporting it here.
The Falcon was just released in Australia, and has received numerous awards. Now, common sense dictates that car was just relased, by the time they federalize the vehicle, for U.S. customers (emmissions, bumpers, safety, left hand side) it can easily take 2-3 more years. Already at that time, the Falcon would be considered dated...why bring a dated product to the U.S.
Instead, the senario that is being worked out, is building the vehicle on a Dew-Lite platform. (DEW is the basis for the Lag S-type, Lincoln LS, Tbird) Dew-LITE will share more with the new Mustang. The Falcon uses a platform that dates back, quite awhile. And give a similar version to Ford Australia, for the next Falcon cycle, meaning, we'll get the new version here before they do. So far this is the most spoken, and realistic plan.
Other hurdles need to be addressed. A) Will customers receive the Chrysler RWD, if so this will allow it B) Being they'll be using larger engines, use CAFE credits to ofset the gas milage, meaning build MANY more Focus', new Futuras, and Hybrid Escape, so the credits they gain on fuel economy, is used on the new RWD's C) Building the vehicle at a pricepoint competitive with Chryslers, and financially sound...
Once these factors are accomplished, then plan to see the vehicle by 2006-2007.
#21 of 27 Ant14: Authoritative Speculation is interesting.
May 04, 2003 (11:21 am)
So, what is the source of your authority?
May 04, 2003 (1:10 pm)
He probably can't, or would prefer not to tell us, and I understand. But, Thank you, ANT, that is very interesting, and appreciated by those Fordophiles on the board...... This is probably my last Navigator, I anticipate not needing the SUV any longer when the lease is up, and going back to a car. It won't be a Lincoln unless either the T/C is upgraded, or they have a new product out that works for me, as the LS is too small. So I'm always looking toward my next car....
May 04, 2003 (5:14 pm)
Yea I muat keep somewhat of a silent factor on what to say.
Instead of Lincoln, have you thought of another Ford brand...Volvo, Jaguar. I would think after leaving a Navigator, everything else would be considered small and cramp.
Years ago I went from a 98 Mark8, to 2000 Lincoln LS8. Space wise I was going up a size scale and noticed it well.
BTW, yes the LS is small, but at certain points it's larger in some ways than comparable vehicles. What glorifies this feeling, is the high side window sills. It's amazing what one inch here or two of window sill, can alter someone to feel tight and claustrophobic. This will be rectified on the next LS for 2005-06 .
Just like Pontiacs, VW, Audi, BMW red instrumentation makes many customers feel subconsciensly hot, bothered and angry. Ironic some of the things we learn.
#24 of 27 ANT14: "thought of another Ford brand, Volvo or Jaguar?"
May 05, 2003 (8:25 am)
Jaguar comes to mind, but in the states of WA & OR there are fewer dealerships & remote they are at that. Over fifty miles away for either dealership whereas there are Ford dealers everywhere. I shopped a Jag dealer in Fife to see just how much rear leg room in the "S" after adjusting the driver's seat for me. Not like the T/C by any means. Installing grandchildren's safety seats in the T/C is a lot easier than the Jag or Lincoln LS. When will all Ford dealerships be having the educated mechanics and related tools to deal with Jaguar warranty work? Volvo = no thank you.
#25 of 27 Volvo or Jaguar....funny you should ask.....
May 05, 2003 (4:14 pm)
A response to both of you, ANT & Kinley, yes I actually have considered and tried both. My partner has a Volvo S-80 T-6. Actually, I bought it for him, he isn't a car guy. He loves the car, even though it's been a bit more trouble prone than he was used to in his GM cars he always drove before. (His Dad sold Cadillacs in Rochester, NY). When he goes on vacation, he usually leaves me the Volvo to watch, and I grew to really like the car, so yes, I would consider an S-80 definitely. It's an amazing performer, and very comfortable in the cabin. Don't know about long term, but I don't go too long term anyway.
If it's going to be a Jag, it has to be the XJ sedan series. I haven't driven a new one lately, but the ones I have driven are nice....little low to the ground for my taste, but certainly in the running.
This is exactly where I would go if Lincoln isn't there for me in 2006. But I've driven Lincolns for 11 years now, except for a brief moment of insanity when I leased a Mountaineer for 24 agonizing months because I needed the SUV, but the Navigator wasn't out yet. I'm really fond of the Lincoln feel. I've never owned a Town Car, but I have rented them for years when out of town, and have always liked them a lot-until 98 when they forgot to put a blower in the A/C. In Las Vegas, that's a problem. I notice they haven't fixed that yet. But if they did by 2006, and didn't cheapen something else up, I could be happy in one. I'm probably old enough for one now.......
May 05, 2003 (5:53 pm)
I really can't discuss personal experience with the dealer because I've never needed anything done on my vehicles that relates with me having to take it into the dealership. When I've needed new tires, I'll do Sears. Oil change (when I remember), on my own. So I couldn't give you a confirmed answer. Personally (wild guess here), if it's an emergency sitation such as being stranded 100 miles from the nearest Jag dealership, I would guess a Lincoln or Ford dealership can give you a quick fit, because of the LS and Tbird sharing kinship.
BUT if the dealership is really giving you a hassle over it (which they probably will because Ford/dealer relations are horrible, they might not want to help you being it might come out of their pocket.
For 2006, you might have 3 Lincolns to look into. One based off the Futura platform. (Not many specifics have landed on my eyes yet). The Continental (this hasn't been confirmed by Ford yet). Also look for a longer/larger LS that will answer the tight rear seat issue. The Conti will not be confirmed till (a few factors) are resolved. Look for a Ford confirmation (or denial) next year at one of the auto shows on the first week oif January. If you do not hear it by then, maybe March-April of 2004 (if these other factors are answered).
May 11, 2003 (11:19 am)
BTW, all dealer orders for 2003 Town Cars (if you wish to get a 2003 model) are due May 30th.