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Good, Bad or Ugly - Current and Future styling trends of BMW

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#343 of 728 to take it simply by m4d_cow Aug 13, 2004 (1:09 am)
imho id say yeah it has things to do w/ the econ, its not getting better at all, and the gas price? whew... its not just the beemers, its all luxury brand markets, theyre falling apart thanks to the economy. beemer sales just hurt a little more because of the designs, or is it the i-drive? im not sure
#344 of 728 by kdshapiro Aug 13, 2004 (4:46 am)
I heard on news radio this am that car sales are up due to manufacturers incentives. In other words, people are not buying without incentives and the incentives are expected to continue into the future.
#345 of 728 Sales by karmikan Aug 13, 2004 (7:52 am)
I'm not getting this at all guys. MBUSA (not globally as in your link rich545) had their best July ever. http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2040804.003/mercedes- /1.html   Toyota reported its best July sales ever, up 18% from a year ago. "The industry is reaping the benefits of the highest consumer confidence ratings in two years," says Jim Press, executive vice president of Toyota Motor Sales USA. "Fuel prices are holding steady, the job market continues to improve, and the 2005 models are hitting showroom floors. These three factors bode well for a strong third quarter."   Nissan USA recorded their best month ever in July. Yet your posts continue to attribute BMW's rapidly declining sales (and disastrous July) to the economy.   In my original post I was trying to say that BMW used to adhere to the same values expressed by Henrick Fisker. As a result, BMWs were universally respected as true driver's cars with an understated, timeless elegance. For whatever reason, BMW has felt the need to deviate from the values that made them so admired. As expressed on this board and elsewhere, BMW's new design and technological philosophies have alienated many existing and prospective BMW owners. BMW was once the media darling and their cars perennially topped comparison tests. Now BMW appears well down the list in most comparisons and I've read driving impressions containing descriptions such as "isolated" and "uninvolving". There's no need to expand on the current BMW designs which have been so universally criticized that they're a bit of a cliche.   IMO these are the underlying reasons for BMW's declining sales. Interesting to note that BMW's CPO sales (read E39) are up dramatically.   Let's see - sales of high-end brands such as MB, Lexus and Infinity are soaring in the US. Sales of mid-market brands such as Toyota and Nissan have hit record levels. Attributing BMW's poor sales figures to economic factors just doesn't cut it. Replies to this message: rich545 (Aug 13, 2004 3:56 pm) rich545 (Aug 13, 2004 4:21 pm)
#346 of 728 by kdshapiro Aug 13, 2004 (3:28 pm)
Actually premium brands suffer in a downturn. Toyoota pumps out a lot of inexpensive vehicles, while BMW, MB, Audi pump out 0.   According to the economic forecasts I've read, we're heading into a period of a spiralling downturn in consumer confidence. People will still buy cars, and I for one would rather buy one with an incentive than without.   BMW is looking to get into a more well-rounded game, to succeed will take some time. I like the new cars head and shoulders above the older models.   You can say all you want the economy is not the issue, but it's much easier to sell a $15K car than a $60K car.
#347 of 728 Re: Sales [karmikan] by rich545 Aug 13, 2004 (3:56 pm)
Replying to: karmikan (Aug 13, 2004 7:52 am) MB might have had it's best July ever, but overall YTD US sales are down 3%. I notice you didn't mention the decline in Audi sales. Is that somehow attributable to the new Bangle designs too??? And how do you account for the 3 series sales decline? That model hasn't been changed yet. I suppose you'll say that's because it's the end of the line for the old design. As far as the new 5 series offering an isolated ride I have no idea where you found that. Read this aticle:   http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_- id=8011   Or this one:   http://www.edmunds.com/new/2004/bmw/5series/100344931/roadtestart- icle.html?articleId=101320&tid=edmunds.e.roadtests.content...- BMW*   Or this one:   http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/mostwanted/2004/100665/article.htm- l   But you know what, reading about how these cars drives is all very nice and well. I actually have one and I drove it againt the E500 and A6. I can tell you from first hand experience it is more of a "driver's car" than either. Isolating is about the last term I'd just to describe the experience. I mean, the performance numbers for the 545i are practically in line with sports cars. Have you even driven the new E60?   I still don't understand why you think Toyoto or Nissan sales have anything to do with BMW sales. It's like comparing Seiko watch sales to Rolex sales. One (Seiko) probably averages about $100 a watch and the other (Rolex) probably averages about $3000. Which do you think sells more in the US? Someone else also mentioned that the Lexus and Infinity sales were at least partially driven by big incentives. BMW from what I saw when I bought mine, isn't offering any on the E60 yet. Bottom line though, if you'd rather drive a Lexus or Infinity rather than the new Bangled BMW's nothing I say can change that. I've driven the big Lexus sedan and I think it ride like a boat. No connection to the road whatsoever. It's as if you ride in it rather than drive it.
#348 of 728 Re: Sales [karmikan] by rich545 Aug 13, 2004 (4:21 pm)
Replying to: karmikan (Aug 13, 2004 7:52 am) Opps, sorry MB US sales overall are down 2% YTD not 3% as I said in my last post (that was through May I think). Here's a link to the article:   http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2004/08/03/207247.html   Note the grand total line.
#349 of 728 More on ugly: 3-series shows progress by designman Aug 14, 2004 (6:52 am)
According to this article in AutoWeek, Z4 sales are down 25.4 percent while roadster sales are down 21.1 percent for the first half of 2004. Because the Z4 is the newest in the segment, sales were expected to be better and "analysts" attribute much of its troubles to styling.   http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=100418   I'm not sure what to make of styling and sales. Most cars are ugly these days so they're all on an even playing field in this area as far as I'm concerned. Last year at this time I thought MBs were ugly. Considering what's around they are starting to look good to me. I think it's a case of the girls getting prettier at closing time. This will never happen with most new BMWs save for the 6 coupe perhaps, but that kind of money gets you a new 997 911, a no-brainer IMO.   With regard to the upcoming 3-series I think they're starting to get a clue that styling has to be reeled in. Many grossly exaggerated features particularly in the treatment of the lamps and those hideous trunk lids have disappeared. This design shows order, balanced proportions and discreet use of asymmetry. However they continue to appear hell-bent on change. Surface topography is busy— they're still crease-crazy—too much help from the spice rack. As seen here I give the 2006 3 a B minus whereas the 5, 7, Z4 and 6 convertible are scornfully stamped F in my book.   If the 3 comes in with only iDrive for NAV as was rumored I think it may score immediate and sustained sales success. However the interior looks incredibly cheap so who knows .   Replies to this message: carnaught (Aug 14, 2004 8:45 am)
#350 of 728 Re: More on ugly: 3-series shows progress [designman] by carnaught Aug 14, 2004 (8:45 am)
Replying to: designman (Aug 14, 2004 6:52 am) Hmmm, back lights are all Infiniti I30/35 and eyebrows have been plucked, yet it's the best looking Bangelized bimmer IMO.
#351 of 728 new 3er = ugly by m4d_cow Aug 14, 2004 (9:09 am)
" I've driven the big Lexus sedan and I think it ride like a boat. No connection to the road whatsoever. It's as if you ride in it rather than drive it. "   darn right on that   designman: yeah no matter what i still find the current 3er better looking. the sidelines on the new 3 start looking worse, rear end is just as ugly as ever. and bangle surely isnt the best interior designer out there at BMW. up until now the new 6 is the only bangle design thats truly appealing to me. i wont say its handsome, but cool, yeah id say that. Replies to this message: carnaught (Aug 14, 2004 12:23 pm)
#352 of 728 Re: new 3er = ugly [m4d_cow] by carnaught Aug 14, 2004 (12:23 pm)
Replying to: m4d_cow (Aug 14, 2004 9:09 am) "....I won't say its handsome, but cool...."   A rousing endorsement of the 645i. (Its rear is a dead ringer for the old Chrysler Cirrus.)

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