Last post on Sep 22, 2012 at 9:23 AM
You are in the Lexus ES
What is this discussion about?
Lexus ES 300, Lexus ES 330, Transmission, Sedan
#1272 of 1407 Re: Which years have the tranny problem? [carpadium]
Nov 20, 2006 (12:20 am)
On my 2005 ES330, the hesitation happens sometimes if I accelerate slowly. If I need to merge onto the freeway or otherwise accelerate for sure, I stab the pedal and it takes off just fine.
See #1221 earlier in this forum
curt2005, "Transmission problems with Lexus ES?" #1222, 28 Aug 2006 8:50 pm
There are two interesting replies in the thread.
I think that this is a side effect of an algorithm in the engine computer designed to get better mileage and/or emissions ratings in the standard tests. It has been an issue with several Toyota models for several years.
For me, the 330 has turned out to be a great car.
#1273 of 1407 Close to buying 330 need advice
Nov 24, 2006 (5:26 pm)
I too am seriously considering purchasing a "certified" '05 or '06 330. I took each for a short test drive today on I95... just between exits. I'm not clear when and how this hesitation/lag shows up. Should I ask to be driving it a lot further? How can I see if the car I'm about to purchase has this problem?
Also does a certified used car come under the Lemon Law or does the car have to be brand new?
Thanks for any info you can give me.
#1274 of 1407 Re: Close to buying 330 need advice [carteach]
Nov 26, 2006 (10:49 am)
Apparently the throttle lag, 1-2 second transaxle downshift delay most commonly occurs when you re-apply pressure to the gas pedal shortly after fully releasing same.
What apparently is happening is that in an effort to improve the overall safety of FWD or front torque biased AWD vehicles vs their RWD brotheren the transaxle shift pattern has been revised to prevent engine compression braking altogether, just as Ford has done in the FWD/AWD Escape and Mariner hybrids.
The primary difference being, seemingly, that Ford only uses this technique if the OAT is hovering around or below freezing whereas Toyota and Lexus appear to use it all year around.
So my guess would be that to most easily duplicate the delay/hesitation one would need to first accelerate at a high enough rate to force a downshift, then fully release the throttle, then re-apply throttle pressure, all in a relatively short sequence, time period.
Thereby forcing a downshift(for quick acceleration), quickly followed by an upshift (so as to alleviate or reduce the level of engine compression braking) resulting from a FULL lift-throttle situation, and lastly, another downshift as a result of re-application of gas pedal pressure.
With the engine RPM having dropped to idle on that initial FULL lift-throttle event there will not be enough ATF pressure/flow to sustain two sequential transaxle shift sequences, and so the DBW system will now NOT allow the engine to develop any significant level of torque until that second shift, downshift, has completed.
Seemingly both Ford and VW have this same throttle lag, 1-2 second downshift delay in their FWD automatic transaxle vehicles. Ford has just announced that the new Ford Edge transaxle will be equipped with a variable displacement ATF pump to improve transaxle efficiency.
While it will undoubtedly, NO DOUBT, improve efficiency I suspect the base reason is to have a HIGH flow rate available with LOW engine RPM without otherwise incurring HUGE losses at normal cruise engine RPM.
A HIGH ATF pump flow rate at engine idle would eliminate the need for the DBW to intervene and delay engine torque buildup.
#1275 of 1407 Re: Which years have the tranny problem? [curt2005]
Nov 28, 2006 (11:45 am)
After doing a lot of research, I found that an Acura TL was comparable and seemingly more performance oriented than the ES of the same year. I ended up buying an '03, 50k miles, TL 3.2 (not the Type-S) and after tax, license, extended warranty (4 yrs/100k mi/$0 ded./bumper-to-bumper) and LOJACK, got out the door at just over $20k. That's the same as I paid in '98 for my then-new Saturn SL2.
I have since driven the TL from Sacramento to SF and back and given a workout on some back roads. I have driven in light rain, day and night, and could not be happier with it. Okay, I could be happier if I paid less or got more features like ventilated seats, but it has lots of goodies, drives like a dream and even if it does develop problems, which is unlikely, I have them covered.
#1276 of 1407 Re: Which years have the tranny problem? [carpadium]
Nov 28, 2006 (2:18 pm)
I was all set to buy the Lexus. Smooth ride, incredible interior. But there's no Lemon Law even for a certified car; and too many people crazed because of tranny problems which affect safety of car. So like you I bought an Acura. I pick it up tomorrow.
Good luck with yours.
#1277 of 1407 Re: Which years have the tranny problem? [carpadium]
Nov 29, 2006 (5:52 am)
I received the following email from one of the certified Lexus salesmen in Westport, CT. Very personable guy, who has stayed on top of his job.I find Toyota's behavior not only unconscionable, but suicidal from a business point of view.
I have an '06 ES330 that will be ready tomorrow late in the day. It is Mystic Pearl(medium green metallic) with beige interior. Is this something you would like to take a look at?
Call me or reply to this email and let me know. I will be here from 9am to 8pm tomorrow.
Look forward to hearing from you.
The following is my reply to him. (for all the good it will do.)Hi______
The Lexus sounds beautiful. Just what I would have wanted. But I decided to purchase an Acura which I'm picking up tomorrow.
Frankly, and you can pass this on to the powers that be, all the discussion of the Lexus tranny issues on every board made me nervous. A number of people had been given replacement cars. (These were new car buyers.) A number of people with new cars were invoking the Lemon Law. And many others were just saying that they'd always bought Lexus; but this was going to be their last one and that they couldn't wait to trade it in.
I was very sad to give up the idea of buying a Lexus. I think they are beautifully appointed with a smooth, smooth ride. But transmissions that hesitate when you're trying to merge far outweighs the beauty of the car. As a matter of fact, I've heard there are unhappy customers with the 350.
Maybe salespeople aren't supposed to talk about the transmission problems, even when asked. But it would make more sense if you all would be able to admit there's been an issue and then offer some kid of reassurance that the car you're selling had not been turned in for that reason... etc. etc.
Sorry for the length of this. In no way am I flaming you. Just a word to pass on to Toyota who seems to have this problem in many of their Camrys, Avalons, etc.and has from what I've heard still not found a fix for this problem.
I wish you well, (Wish Toyota/Lexus had made the improvements so I would have been able to purchase one of your beautiful cars.)
#1278 of 1407 Re: Which years have the tranny problem? [carteach]
Nov 29, 2006 (6:15 am)
Nicely written making good points.
#1279 of 1407 Re: Which years have the tranny problem? [pat]
Nov 29, 2006 (6:29 am)
Yes...good message that should apply to all manufactures who tend to dismiss problems by telling you "itís normalĒ.
Iím thinking of my poor Acura experience which eventually ended up in a law suit.
#1280 of 1407 Re: Which years have the tranny problem? [carteach]
Nov 29, 2006 (7:47 am)
Probably a good move to buy the Acura. Wish I had. Lexus replaced the transmission in my 2007 ES 350 a couple of months ago because of an "RPM flare" between 3rd and 4th gear when the car was driven in the morning after sitting overnight. Things were OK for awhile, but now the problem seems to be coming back. Sewell Lexus in Fort Worth, Tx has been great, but Lexus has a problem with which they need to deal.
#1281 of 1407 Re: Close to buying 330 need advice [wwest]
Dec 01, 2006 (2:20 am)
I think wwest may be on the right track in linking the hesitation to reducing the level of engine compression braking to improve safety.
Would you please explain the "ATF" and "DBW" acronyms?