Last post on Sep 22, 2012 at 9:23 AM
You are in the Lexus ES
What is this discussion about?
Lexus ES 300, Lexus ES 330, Transmission, Sedan
#1056 of 1407 I still enjoy the discussion
Feb 02, 2006 (6:05 am)
Hylyner, I appreciate your input even if I agree with wwest's points. This board is helpful because some people considering the car will be more cautious on their test drive. In fact, I would be cautious with ANY automatic transmission car from any manufacturer. I just saw a an article in a leading Conumer information magazine where they complained of hesitation in a VW Passat with a 6 speed automatic transmission. I also see some glowing reviews and some very upset owners with the Mercedes Benz 7 speed transmission.
My solution has been to drive the car (a 2003 Lexus ES 300) more like a manual transmission car. In any situation where I feel I possibly may need instant power, I manually shift the car into 3rd gear. I think the shifting around of the gear lever also affects the shifting algorithm in general (at least for a while).
In bumper to bumper traffic, I use 2nd gear much of the time and enjoy the engine braking affect.
#1057 of 1407 Re: I still enjoy the discussion [lounger]
Feb 02, 2006 (6:35 am)
Thanks. Your objective tone is encouraging. I too, have no problems with Wwest's ideas. He offers "food for thought" too.
Just as my input was not "the" solution, Wwest's are "other" solutions, and--what you propose is yet "another" solution. This is good stuff!
My feeling re what these forums have morphed into isn't what they were intended for. As I said above, there seems to be much more emphasis on "blame" than anything else. The process should be "define the problem" (that hasn't been done here)--then look for solutions, but it's gone the other way 'round IMO.
It seems to me the "solution" has already been agreed upon, regardless, and the problem is continually being adapted to the solution.
Wrong way to go about it, IMO.
#1058 of 1407 Re: I still enjoy the discussion [hylyner]
Feb 02, 2006 (6:42 am)
Yep, this forum isn't serving any useful purpose at all. It has degenerated into the "Dog chasing its own tail". I do find some of the half baked theories about the cause of hesitation somewhat interesting though.
#1059 of 1407 Re: NEVER! [hylyner]
Feb 02, 2006 (7:33 am)
No, constructive and creative ideas are really what this forum is all about, especially until a solution is found. Just remember that when any of us come up with an idea we must be willing to accept the critiques.
Remember my idea of modifying the IAT? Or the one about it being the inappropriate use of a solenoid as a linear servomotor? Those went absolutely no where, and for good cause I now firmly believe.
Start to think of it as a back and forth discussion, a fully open discussion.
#1060 of 1407 Re: NEVER! [hylyner]
Feb 02, 2006 (9:40 am)
Well, you really can't expect everyone to agree with your opinions regarding this problem, just like you don't agree with opinions expressed by others. That is a reality that has to be dealt with in discussion forums. Really what you presented about the aftermarket options is nothing to agree or disagree with. Interesting information. What I disagree with is your implication that since these options are out there, we should not be worried about this anymore because the solution is simple. I challenge that if the solution is so simple, why hasn't Toyota solved it yet. My opinion is that these aftermarket options either are not "the" solution or they may solve the problem while at the same time compromising some other characteristic of the vehicle(fuel economy?).
The fact that many companies are offering products/services to correct the problem does not mean that they work either. As an analogy, there are hundreds if not thousands of hair restoration remedies on the market but that doesn't mean that they all work. It just means that the problem is big enough that companies think they can capitalize on it.
#1061 of 1407 Re: NEVER! [scoti1]
Feb 02, 2006 (9:59 am)
You asked a question in another post: "If Toyota isn't to blame here, then who is?" (No inference there--it's clearly indicative of where you are on this issue, right?)
Well, you could start by learning more about why it affects only a few vehicles and not most others. Is that a design anomaly, a driving style problem, a sensitivity thing, something unique to that particular vehicle, and so on. If it was part of a design thing, then ALL of them should have problems--but that's not happening at all.
No,don't bother to look elsewhere-- it's a big bad Toyota thing, blame it on a design flaw.
Then there's a big mystery about the TSB. Why does it apparently work for some and not others?
Could it be dealers aren't doing it right---or not doing it at all--or some aren't even having it done--or what?
But no, it's a big bad Toyota thing, blame it on the design flaw.
I could continue, but why bore you with a search for facts. I'm sure you're not interested, much less want to learn all there is to know about this issue. It's much easier to blame, blame, blame--that's become the predetermined name of this game IMO.
#1062 of 1407 Re: What's working for me [scoti1]
Feb 02, 2006 (10:33 am)
Yes, I have had the TSB. And they have erased the ECU memory several times. I have reported the problem, and they have attempted to fix the problem under warranty, four times now (which is the required number in my state). And, separately, I also met with the area Lexus manufacturer's Representative, who drove with me in my car, and drove my car with me in it, and was able to experience and replicate the problem.
As for the TSB - my car is actually WORSE since the TSB. I know there are several people here in this forum for whom the TSB remedied the problem - so I would still suggest it to anyone who hasn't had it. It just didn't work for me....
#1063 of 1407 Re: No cure.... [wwest]
Feb 02, 2006 (10:36 am)
I don't understand your paragraph #3 and #4. Can you explain further? What is 'sequential shift feature'? Is that like the Porche 'tiptronic' feature?
#1064 of 1407 Re: NEVER! [wwest]
Feb 02, 2006 (10:43 am)
wwest - I agree with the thought of a button that is the inverse to the 'snow' mode. My SAAB had a button like that - I think it was called 'sport' mode. I used it on days when I wanted it to react more quickly. I do really wish my Lexus ES had a button like that.
#1065 of 1407 My Evaluation
Feb 02, 2006 (11:01 am)
I am not an engineer by any means, and I can tell that some of you are.....but as a person who IS experiencing this phenomenon, here's what I think makes the most sense from everything I've heard from you all and the dealer.
This phenomenon is a combination of the following:
1. The fuel economy focus, whereby the transmission is told to shift into a higher gear as soon as possible, or into neutral, based on certain circumstances.
2. The concept someone touched on about protecting the clutch. When the car is in the higher gear, or neutral, and its now time to switch into a lower gear (or into gear) - some type of protection mechanism that is causing a delay.
3. The Drive By Wire (DBW) technology, which maybe does not react as quickly as a hard-wired cable (I've seen this in waterski boats - Mastercraft had a huge problem with this a couple of years ago - but they ultimately found a fix....- don't know the specifics though)
Those things make sense to me - based on what I experience in my car. The problem is that I haven't been able to pinpoint those exact circumstances where this delay occurs, such that I could stop doing whatever that is.
I have concluded this is in fact a design issue. I've come to that conclusion not only based on what I've experienced, and what I've read here - but the dealer and the Mfr Rep both said 'its doing what it was designed to do'.
As far as why only some cars do it, I've concluded that it is definitely driving style and circumstances based. I've come to that conclusion because I experience the same exact symptoms in EVERY Lexus ES I have driven (i.e. loaner cars at the dealer). And further, the dealer and the Mfr Rep both told me that this is something that only a percentage of the population experience, and they told me that I would experience it in all ES models.
So, given all of this, I don't understand why either the dealer, or the manufacturer, won't help me get out of this car at a price where neither of us will loose (or make) money.