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Jeep Liberty Diesel
11441 messages, Last post on Mar 24, 2013 at 6:40 AM
You are in the Jeep Liberty and Jeep Liberty Diesel Forum.What is this discussion about? Jeep Liberty, Biodiesel, Diesel, SUV
#8929 of 11441 MY CRD CORRESPONDENCE TO DC by crdnot
Mar 29, 2007 (6:40 pm)
Dear CRD Owners,My purpose of posting this correspondence to to share my experiences thus far with my 05 CRD and the response I received (or not received) from DC. Maybe it will help and maybe it won;t but I know I will feel better. I welcome your comments
CRDNOT
January 2, 2007
DaimlerChrysler Corporation
Re: Customer Satisfaction Notification F37
Dear DaimlerChrysler:
It is obvious by the content of your recall notice F37 that the torque converter situation is not the problem but is a symptom of the real problem. Your desire to reprogram the engine and transmission control modules to reduce the torque is an obvious admission of your failure to properly engineer a match between the 2.8L turbo diesel and your transmission. Your recall notice appears to have been written by your Marketing and Accounting departments as opposed to Engineering as you have not identified the problem with the transmission.
My decision to purchase the CRD was driven by the need for the published 5000lb towing capacity and the power/fuel economy and longevity of a diesel engine. Reducing the power of the engine I purchased as a solution to your mismatching the driveline is totally unacceptable. In effect, through tampering with the computer settings you will actually change the product I purchased after the fact. I will not give you permission to change my product.
If DaimlerChrysler is truly interested in customer satisfaction you will take the following steps relative to repairs on my vehicle.
1. You do not have my permission to change the engine I purchased through tampering with the engine management system.
2. The torque converter and transmission is to be replaced in its entirety as a unit shipped from DaimlerChrysler. Your recall notice suggests that the transmission may be damaged which would require an additional hour of service repair time. It is clear that this will be left entirely to the discretion of a service technician who has been allocated 1 hour to complete repairs on transmission damage. If I now have proof that my confidence in DaimlerChrysler to correctly engineer this vehicle was misplaced, I certainly will not trust “bench work” for a quick fix on my transmission. You have offered and I have purchased a vehicle with a driveline capable of lasting 300-400,000 miles. Yet your transmission now must be replaced at 30,000 miles.
3. The only legitimate position for DaimlerChrysler at this point will be to replace the transmission and to warrant their performance for the life of the engine. This is a reasonable expectation for anyone purchasing a vehicle. Anything less is shoddy engineering.
4. If for some reason you fail to see the benefit to both DaimlerChrysler and their customers by handling this matter in the above fashion I would expect you to take back my vehicle and refund my purchase price.
I also want to mention that I called your Michigan based customer service number last week on two occasions to discuss this recall and to discuss the use of Bio Diesel fuel in my CRD. Regarding the Bio Diesel, I was told I couldn’t use any Bio Diesel fuel in my vehicle. When I asked the person to confirm their data they reconfirmed that Bio Diesel was not approved for my CRD. I found this quite interesting since DaimlerChrysler touted in several media markets the CRD introduction with a tank of B5. Maybe your customer service staff should research your announcements on the web?
With regard to my conversation about the recall I asked specifically for answers on what caused this recall action, what exactly was the anticipated damage to my transmission, what would the end result of the repairs do to the torque, and towing capacity vs. what was sold to me. I was told my inquiry was to be directed by me to the local service manager, as my questions were too technical. I asked for a supervisor or a technician as I felt my questions were not too technical for my understanding! I was again referred to my local dealer service manager. I also specifically asked for a new transmission as well as a new torque converter. I was told to take this up with my local dealer service manager. I called my local dealer to inquire on the above and I was told I would have to contact DaimlerChrysler. Who should I call KIA?
I expect an immediate reply to my communication. I will not give my local dealer permission to proceed with any repairs until I have had your positive response to this.
I am extremely disappointed in the way DaimlerChrysler has handled this recall thus far. I suggest you check what is being said on the blogs about the CRD and this recall. . . what a shame.
Your failure to properly engineer the driveline has already diminished the value of my purchase. Your quality is best measured by the long-term value of your products. This is your opportunity to make a statement to those owners who have trusted you and to the automotive industry that DaimlerChrysler is credible and deserving of the business.
March 16, 2007
DaimlerChrysler Corporation
Customer Satisfaction Notice F37
This letter represents the second written attempt and the sixth correspondence regarding my request for satisfaction regarding the recall on my 2005 JEEP Liberty CRD. After making two phone calls I received a call back from your customer service (technical support) dept to discuss my previous written correspondence.
At the core of my problem is the reluctance of DaimlerChrysler to fully disclose the nature of the engineering problems relative to the driveline for the diesel as well as, engineering specifics relative to the true effect of the changes made, not only to the transmission but of greater concern to the engine management system.
Your recall notice F37 indicates a potential problem for the torque converter/transmission, but states that DaimlerChrysler technicians will make a change in the engine management system resulting in a loss of power to provide a longer service life to the transmission. By all reason of logic it is evident that by suggesting this fix you are obviously indicating that the transmission was not properly matched to the performance characteristics of the CRD engine. This vehicle was purchased in confidence based on four primary factors:
1. The belief that DaimlerChrysler had enough experience to properly engineer a diesel driveline.
2. The fuel economy of a diesel engine relevant to gasoline.
3. Longevity of diesel drivelines.
4. Your stated 295 ft lbs of torque, which would translate into a towing capacity of 5,000 lbs.
On February 6, 2007 I spoke with you directly, the following is a transcript of that conversation.
Q. Why tamper with the engine management system if the transmission may have problems.
A. As the recall states to extend the service life of the transmission.
Q. So if nothing is done the transmission could fail prematurely.
A. The recall is for the torque
- hamchamp (Mar 30, 2007 4:54 am)
- crdnot (Mar 29, 2007 6:42 pm)
- bullhead (Apr 02, 2007 6:09 am)
Replies to this message:
#8930 of 11441 MY CRD CORRESPONDENCE CONTINUED by crdnot
Mar 29, 2007 (6:47 pm)
CONTINUED...Q. So if nothing is done the transmission could fail prematurely.
A. The recall is for the torque converter; the transmission will be inspected for damage upon removal.
Q. What is the specific power and torque loss based on the engine remapping?
A. Engine performance would not change.
Q. How can you say engine performance will not change when you have reduced the load on the transmission by altering the engine mapping? The engineers must have some basis for the change of the settings and the effect of those changes. Again, what are the revised horsepower and torque measurements after the changes?
A. Engineers state you will not notice any difference in torque or performance with the changes.
Q. You have not answered my questions. Am I to assume that the engineering department has not tested and measured the effects of the change that they are requiring all dealers to do on these vehicles? That would be as ludicrous as a new product launch with a turbo diesel engine vehicle and not properly testing the balance of the driveline that is mated to that engine?
A. The engineers have indicated a 20 ft lb of torque drop at wide-open throttle.
Q. Why did you tell me earlier that engine performance would not change? Based on all that has been said I am formally requesting that you have engineering provide to me graphs of the horsepower and torque curves across the entire RPM range, both before and after the required changes.
A. We cannot provide that as it is information proprietary to DaimlerChrysler.
Response:
Your marketing department did not think it was proprietary when they sold me the benefit of 295 ft lbs of torque and 5,000 lbs of towing capacity.
Q. So what will the new towing capacity be?
A. I do not have that information.
Q. Would you indicate in your file reference that I requested documentation of the results from engineering regarding the horsepower, torque, and revised towing capacity of the CRD JEEP Liberty?
A. Yes I will.
Response:
I do not think we have anything further to discuss at this point. Please forward the requested information – thank you.
A. You are welcome.
Based on the preceding exchange and the entire correspondence record it is obvious that DaimlerChrysler is not interested in fully disclosing the nature of this problem or the result of their “fix”. They are interested in diminishing the performance of the vehicle I purchased in good faith, to place a low cost fix on a significant problem with the mismatch of the engine with the balance of the driveline.
Since this discussion on February 6, 2007 the entire differential assembly had to be replaced in an emergency repair as it failed within the course of 150 miles.
In my previous correspondence I suggested a fair and reasonable solution, which included an extended warranty on the driveline.
Given the lack of response and cooperation from DaimlerChrysler, the five plus weeks I have waited to receive your follow up information, correspondence or any acknowledgement in writing as requested of my concerns; I request the immediate repurchase of my vehicle for the full price I paid.
I expect your response within a reasonable timeframe and I expect it in written form as well as verbal acknowledgement of receipt of this letter.
I am still waiting their response.
#8931 of 11441 Re: Pop goes the hose [winter2] by tired_old_dave
Mar 29, 2007 (8:30 pm)
Replying to: winter2 (Mar 29, 2007 2:20 pm)
Thank You
#8932 of 11441 Re: Pop goes the hose [winter2] by tired_old_dave
Mar 29, 2007 (8:32 pm)
Replying to: winter2 (Mar 29, 2007 2:20 pm)
I used to have some Indian Head from the 50's/60's and was going to mention it. There are the new design hoses, I thought you got them or was it rfcrd at lost. I still remember your posts long long ago about your Isuzu diesel and your enlightenment for us newbies about thin oil being passed thru the turbo (and the ccv). While the vgt is good in theory, when soot and cokable oil mix, its' disassembly and cleaning might become part of the ?k miles maintenance schedule. I was hoping (and may have been working) that redline diesel additive and poe oil would act as a liquid cleaner to self-clean the turbo(even thought about MMO - naptha and wintergreen oil?). Are the bearings failing from thin oil and/or lack of cool down.
#8933 of 11441 Re: Pop goes the hose [winter2] by caribou1
Mar 30, 2007 (1:55 am)
Replying to: winter2 (Mar 29, 2007 2:20 pm)
Hi winter2, - The hose going to the intake manifold is ~4" shorter on the models equipped with EGR airflow control valve. This makes the hose stiffer.
- Your engine is now mounted on 'hydraulic' vibration dampers if I remember. Damping is made smoother by allowing more movement.
When you put all this together, you get more movement for the engine and a shorter hose. This is a miss match
#8934 of 11441 Re: Pop goes the hose [winter2] by siberia
Mar 30, 2007 (4:06 am)
Replying to: winter2 (Mar 29, 2007 2:20 pm)
They become porous and spongy with time and exposure to heat and the oil vapors... This explains why clamps are loosening over time. The hoses are giving in to the pressure of the clamp. We need to find an after market solution or more reasonably priced OEM hoses.
#8935 of 11441 Re: Pop goes the hose [siberia] by caribou1
Mar 30, 2007 (4:50 am)
Replying to: siberia (Mar 30, 2007 4:06 am)
I would settle for a set of these: http://www.siliconhoses.com/gallery.asp
The 'HUMP hose' is even better to connect onto the EGR airflow control valve:
http://www.boostcontroller.com/index.php?category=34
- siberia (Mar 31, 2007 3:39 am)
- winter2 (Apr 01, 2007 7:35 am)
Replies to this message:
#8936 of 11441 Re: MY CRD CORRESPONDENCE TO DC [crdnot] by hamchamp
Mar 30, 2007 (4:54 am)
Replying to: crdnot (Mar 29, 2007 6:40 pm)
Well said and well written. I can't agree more. They use the term "engineers" loosely 
Hamchamp
#8937 of 11441 Re: MY CRD CORRESPONDENCE TO DC [crdnot] by crdnot
Mar 29, 2007 (6:42 pm)
Replying to: crdnot (Mar 29, 2007 6:40 pm)
Continued... On February 6, 2007 I spoke with you directly, the following is a transcript of that conversation.
Q. Why tamper with the engine management system if the transmission may have problems.
A. As the recall states to extend the service life of the transmission.
Q. So if nothing is done the transmission could fail prematurely.
A. The recall is for the torque converter; the transmission will be inspected for damage upon removal.
Q. What is the specific power and torque loss based on the engine remapping?
A. Engine performance would not change.
Q. How can you say engine performance will not change when you have reduced the load on the transmission by altering the engine mapping? The engineers must have some basis for the change of the settings and the effect of those changes. Again, what are the revised horsepower and torque measurements after the changes?
A. Engineers state you will not notice any difference in torque or performance with the changes.
Q. You have not answered my questions. Am I to assume that the engineering department has not tested and measured the effects of the change that they are requiring all dealers to do on these vehicles? That would be as ludicrous as a new product launch with a turbo diesel engine vehicle and not properly testing the balance of the driveline that is mated to that engine?
A. The engineers have indicated a 20 ft lb of torque drop at wide-open throttle.
Q. Why did you tell me earlier that engine performance would not change? Based on all that has been said I am formally requesting that you have engineering provide to me graphs of the horsepower and torque curves across the entire RPM range, both before and after the required changes.
A. We cannot provide that as it is information proprietary to DaimlerChrysler.
Response:
Your marketing department did not think it was proprietary when they sold me the benefit of 295 ft lbs of torque and 5,000 lbs of towing capacity.
Q. So what will the new towing capacity be?
A. I do not have that information.
Q. Would you indicate in your file reference that I requested documentation of the results from engineering regarding the horsepower, torque, and revised towing capacity of the CRD JEEP Liberty?
A. Yes I will.
Response:
I do not think we have anything further to discuss at this point. Please forward the requested information – thank you.
A. You are welcome.
Based on the preceding exchange and the entire correspondence record it is obvious that DaimlerChrysler is not interested in fully disclosing the nature of this problem or the result of their “fix”. They are interested in diminishing the performance of the vehicle I purchased in good faith, to place a low cost fix on a significant problem with the mismatch of the engine with the balance of the driveline.
Since this discussion on February 6, 2007 the entire differential assembly had to be replaced in an emergency repair as it failed within the course of 150 miles.
In my previous correspondence I suggested a fair and reasonable solution, which included an extended warranty on the driveline.
Given the lack of response and cooperation from DaimlerChrysler, the five plus weeks I have waited to receive your follow up information, correspondence or any acknowledgement in writing as requested of my concerns; I request the immediate repurchase of my vehicle for the full price I paid.
I expect your response within a reasonable timeframe and I expect it in written form as well as verbal acknowledgement of receipt of this letter.
I am still waiting their response.
#8938 of 11441 Re: Pop goes the hose [winter2] by caribou1
Mar 30, 2007 (1:54 am)
Replying to: winter2 (Mar 29, 2007 2:20 pm)
Hi winter2, - The hose going to the intake manifold is ~4" shorter on the models equipped with EGR airflow control valve. This makes the hose stiffer.
- Your engine is now mounted on 'hydraulic' vibration dampers if I remember. Damping is made smoother by allowing more movement.
When you put all this together, you get more movement for the engine and a shorter hose. This is a miss match
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