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Jeep Liberty Diesel

10699 messages,  Last post on Dec 05, 2009 at 4:11 PM

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What is this discussion about? Jeep Liberty, Biodiesel, Diesel, SUV

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#41 of 10699 kyjeepster by sebring95 Sep 05, 2003 (4:59 am)
I think they're more waiting on the dealerships to be able to handle the repairs/maintenance. Without a good network of trained shops with the proper parts and tools, this will flop with the likes of the old GM debacle. VW really doesn't have the proper network of qualified repair people to work on TDI's, but they get away with it for the most part just because they're VW. Many VW TDI owners are enthusiasts or do their own mechanic work so it's not an issue. I don't see joe-blow SUV buyer being in the same crowd, although I'm sure many diesel enthusiasts will flock to this vehicle. The public mainstream is what they have to worry about with this vehicle.   Jeep sells in such quantities, that this HAS to be a flawless rollout. I have no worries about the vehicle being sound, but if the dealerships can't provide decent service and advice it will seem as if the vehicles are the problem.   I'm not aware of anything on these vehicles that low-sulphur fuel will effect. Low-sulphur is needed for advanced emissions controls, but I haven't heard if these motors will be built with anything like that initially or not.
#42 of 10699 re: post by sebring 95 by bricknord Sep 07, 2003 (3:32 pm)
I too am eagerly awaiting the Liberty diesel. I have owned 6 diesel Volkswagens including 3 of the newer "TDI" generation.   Allow me to respectfully disagree with the statements by sebring95 which indicate that VW dealerships or independent repair shops are not prepared to service the TDI diesel-engined vehicles.   VW started selling diesels in 1977 in the USA. Wtth the exception of a few years in the mid-1990's, when VW sales were at their nadir, VW has pretty much continuously sold diesel vehicles in the USA over the time from 1977 until now. Tee TDI Passat was sold from 1996-1997, and the very popular Jetta and Golf TDI cars were made available in 1999 and continue today. A very significant number of TDI cars are sold by VWoA each year, and dealership techs see these cars in VW service bays daily and have a great deal of experience with them. The TDI engine has a very good reputation from any VW tech I've ever talked to ( having owned 15 VWs in life so far ). Many VW techs, at least at dealerships of any size, have plenty of experience working on diesel cars, and there are lots of independent shops out there that specialize in VW repair that have savvy VW-diesel techs.   With regards to owners and their diesel VWs, well, true, the diesel VW-owners are more tech-savvy in my experience than the gasser-VW-owners, but you see a clean break relating to the age of the cars. The older  70's, 80's, early 90's diesel VWs are FAR less complex to work on than the TDI-engined cars. You do see a fair number of folks wrenching on their older diesel dubs. However, aside from an oil change or tire rotation, most maintenance or repairs on TDI cars are way out of the shade-tree mechanics realm, and often diagnosis of faults requires expensive and or specialized shop equipment. Hardly any TDI owners working on their own cars, at least if the car was built post-1995.   You'll find that if you ask a VW TDI owner, you'll likely get a very positive response regarding their TDI. If the Jeep diesel engined vehicles ( Liberty ) engender the same goodwill from owners as the VW TDI cars, it will be a very good thing for DC.   Matt Brickell Lee's Summit, MO VW Sales Guild 2002 ( top 1% of VW sales consultants in North America ) and 15x VW owner current: 03 Jetta TDI wagon 5 speed 83 Pickup ( VW ) 87 Quantum Syncro ( AWD ) 03 MINI Cooper 5 speed
#43 of 10699 bricknord by sebring95 Sep 08, 2003 (6:11 am)
Of the 16,000 members on a certain TDI site and my personal experience with local dealerships, I say the majority of VW dealers are incompetent when it comes to TDI's. They've had plenty of time to get good at it over the years, but in general it hasn't happened. I didn't say anything about independent shops being incompetent. I believe it is easier to find a VW specialist that would be much better than the dealership for repair work. Doesn't help you when you've got a warranty paying for all the repairs.   I've personally corrected many mistakes made by dealerships with my $300 software and a few tools. I've fixed cars (and I'm NOT a mechanic) for people on the verge of trading their nearly new TDI's on a Toyota because of a simple problem that the dealers only action was to try and replace every part on the car. I've witnessed several cars with dealership timing belt changes that were not timed correctly. There is one dealer within 100 miles I would use if I absolutely had to. They're actually the smallest dealer and in a rural area, but have a guy that's very good with diesels.   Jeep needs people with lots of training for this to work properly. Most aren't going to have any experience in things like turbos, various electronics, and the overall different characteristics of diesels. Dodge, GM, and Ford would have a better chance with their US dealerships because most have diesel mechanics on board for their heavy trucks.
#45 of 10699 Liberty vs VW by jimlockey Sep 08, 2003 (2:33 pm)
I wouldn't brag too much on VW dealers. Of the 30+ new vehicles I've purchased in my life, I found the VW dealers more costly for prevenative maintence work than any other automotive dealers I have ever been to in my life. I loved the TDI but could no longer put up with charging me for things that should be covered by my warrenty. The VW dealers put me out of the VW business.   Jeep will have little to no problem with the diesel they are intorducing in 05. I hope they add the diesel to other vehicles too.
#46 of 10699 re:sebring95 by bricknord Sep 08, 2003 (2:53 pm)
I appreciate your opinion, but based on extensive personal experience with VW diesels, the vast majority of which was gained far before being involved in any professional capacity with VW, I continue to disagree.   Had you said in your original post, that "in your experience" your local VW dealers were not positioned to service TDI cars, that's one thing. My issue is with your blanket statement that VW in general does not have a network of competent repair people and gets away with it. May I ask what facts, statistics or extensive personal experience at the VW dealership service level substantiate such a broad statement? (Really, neither you nor I, when you think about it, have even remotely enough personal experience to warrant such a comprehensive statement). I've found that aside from small VW dealers ( and even some of those ), most VW service departments have a couple of techs with plenty of TDI experience. I see fewer disgruntled clients of mine who own TDI cars than any other sort of VW, by far. I've worked at more than one dealership and found this to be the case. I've lived all over the USA and owned diesel VWs and found the same level of service available to me as when owning a gasoline-powered VW. I'm puzzled to hear that your area seems to be unusual. In our administrative area, for instance, of about 20 dealerships, the average completely satisfied service survey percentage is approximately 90% across the model range. I have not seen in my personal experience where diesel service clients are any more or less satisfied with repairs than any other group. If anything, the diesel VW owners are more critical than the norm, but beside the point.   Anyway, I'll agree to disagree here. I maintain that the level of experience and competence with TDI cars at VW dealerships is little if any different than with the gassers, aside from a small town dealer ( not many of those with VW anymore). The volume of TDI cars through the service departments is high enough to rate working on a TDI at a VW dealership as routine. No magic to working on a TDI for an experienced VW tech than a 1.8T really, I don't think. I'm just basing my opinion on my own experience with my own cars ( quite a few, some old, some new), and that of a couple of hundred clients, not the world. Anyway, back to relating to the diesel Liberty...   In my area, the majority of Jeep dealers are also Dodge/Chrysler dealers. Given the popularity or the diesel Ram trucks, I'd assume any given Dodge dealer would have a decent amount of experience working on diesel vehicles. Agreed, though, that like any type of car these days with very sophisticated systems and electronics, a large amount of training and significant investment in diagnotic tools and repair equipment will be necessary to adequately service the Liberty diesel properly. I've spent time in a VW dealership service department, and seen first hand the level of training and support given to VW techs on the TDI cars. Also remarkable is the commitment of most of the techs to doing a good job on the diesels ( and others ). Easy for the general public to bash dealership service, but I'll bet the average person would be quite surprised at the average level of competence and commitment to their TDI product in a metro VW dealership service department.   If Jeep techs get anywhere near the amount of support and training on the diesel Liberty as I see our VW guys get on TDI Jettas, I think aside from perhaps some initial teething issues as experience is gained ( like anything else ), the Jeep Liberty diesel folks will be in good hands. I may buy one myself!   Cheers!   Matt
#47 of 10699 They have ALL KINDS of experience by bpeebles Sep 08, 2003 (3:38 pm)
Minor correction.... it is NOT Dodge-Chrysler it is Daimler-Chrysler (aka DC) They have been building and selling Diesels for many years in their Mercedies line of automobiles.   BTW-- Have you seen that Honda has tasked their Senior Chief Engineer Kenichi Nagahiro into building a Diesel engine. This guy concieves world-class engines. Times they are a changin...   http://www.waitnews.com/honda_diesel_engine.htm http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=136769
#48 of 10699 VW Dealers by jimlockey Sep 08, 2003 (8:20 pm)
Preventative maintence for my 02 TDI New Beetle cost me twice and almost three times as much as my 2000 Ford Power Stroke diesel. All the Dallas, Tx VW dealers charged you for things that should have been covered my warrenty. Ford or Dodge did not do this. The fact that I also owned recent model Dodge cummins diesel and three Dodge mini vans in addition. The preventative maintence cost was also much less than what the VW dealers charged. I also pull a 5th wheel all over the US and have done business with other dealers too doesn't make me an expert. I'm just giving you the facts.   VW is not the same same as when I owned several of the old VW bugs in the 60's. They now try to rip the customers off and I'm to old and to smart for that kind of service.   Oh, I've had other automobiles and trucks too. Dodge and Ford both have good dealers who try hard to sevvice their customers. As for the Jeep liberty I've only test driven one but I have driven the old Willis Jeeps a bunch. Adding a diesel to the Liberty will be the perfect match.
#49 of 10699 bricknord by sebring95 Sep 10, 2003 (5:08 am)
Check out Volkswagon Owners: TDI Models for some interesting dealer "issues". A $3,000 EGR cleaning made headlines today. Talk about incompetent. Pretty bad when an amateur like myself could have diagnosed this and fixed it within an afternoon, nevermind a month. How many liberties will sit around for a month because a Jeep tech doesn't know about possible EGRs clogging? Not an issue in Europe where they have diesel that isn't garbage.
#50 of 10699 Dealer Issues by jimlockey Sep 10, 2003 (6:32 am)
Not having enough good techs is a problem with Dodge. This is the reason I changed from a Cummins diesel to a Ford diesel. I was uneasy traveling with my Dodge for just that reason. I had a tech in New Mexico take care of an issue that my dealer in Mesquite, Tx was unable to fix for six months. I actually travel more in my Truck because of the 5th wheel than I do in my mini van and I don't like troubles on the road.   Even though Dodge, Jeep doesn't have as many dealers as GMC & Ford they do have more than many others and I want to be able to find a dealer when I have issues while traveling.

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