Last post on Feb 15, 2005 at 12:48 PM
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Fuel System, Fuel System, Diesel, Hybrid Cars, Fuel Efficiency (MPG)
#2546 of 2800 Re: [misterme]
Feb 03, 2005 (6:33 am)
Fukui also said Honda is considering a hybrid SUV for the United States but the company hasn't made a decision. Honda's U.S. sales unit is asking for one to counter the hybrid Toyota Highlander and Lexus RX models coming this spring.
You can read whatever you want into those articles. Toyota has had the prototype for the RX for about 3 years and it is still not in the showrooms. If Honda started today on a Pilot or Ody hybrid it would be 2008 before it went on sale. By 2006 ULSD will be available in every state and real economy diesel cars will be flooding the market by 2008. Honda can make lots more money selling diesel cars than hybrids, so it is a no brainer. If that's not so why are they building hybrids in very low quantities. Hybrids have very little appeal with mainstream car buyers. The people I ask about buying a hybrid laugh and say no way. Diesel cars sell very well where ever they are offered for sale.
#2547 of 2800 Re: Sure the percentages will skew to VW in a VW Honda fleet comparo [ruking1]
Feb 03, 2005 (6:46 am)
I would say that the jury is out on that. Just because one of your cars has history doesn't mean that it gets the nod over a newer one. That's all I meant.
#2548 of 2800 OK now you got me fired up (in a good way).....:)
Feb 03, 2005 (6:50 am)
quote gagrice-"The people I ask about buying a hybrid laugh and say no way."-end quote
Next time someone says that about a hybrid, ask them "why?" they have such an opinion. Bet you dollars to doughnuts the reasons are something that is caused by a misconception on their part:
"You have to plug them in."
"What if you have to drive through water?"
"Not enough power" (Accord Hybrid)
"too expensive" ($18K for a new 2004 HCH MT)
Most of the reasons people give for not buying hybrids are COMPLETELY because of ignorance of the technology. Ask them "what, you dont like saving gas money or helping the environment?" I bet it's in part the old adage, 'I care about the environment just about enough to not do anything to help.'
On another subject you mentioned:
quote gagrice-"Honda can make lots more money selling diesel cars than hybrids, so it is a no brainer."-end quote
Honda has a new iCTDI CR-V for sale in March in the UK, and they are not pushing it over the gas version. See this story:
The article indicates that the diesel CR-V will NOT be a great seller in the UK.
" Honda emphasises that the petrol CR-V is not only cheaper to buy but has lower whole-life costs (assuming the mileages quoted above), and that its engine is both more powerful and more refined than the diesel."
quote gagrice-"If that's not so why are they building hybrids in very low quantities."-end quote
They build them as they need them, so as not to have excess inventory, which affects the bottom line financial statements, that's why. There is not a shortage of Honda hybrids.
#2549 of 2800 Re: Sure the percentages will skew to VW in a VW Honda fleet comparo [gagrice]
Feb 03, 2005 (6:55 am)
"You are ignoring the facts. 2004 has been one of the worst years for Honda reliability EVER. Their transmissions are failing by the thousands, cars catching on fire and rattles by the score. The reason that VW sales have dropped is simple. CA blocked the sales of the the VERY popular TDI. I am sure VW outsells Honda Worldwide, by a bunch. The EU buy more VWs than all other cars. VW is also the largest car manufacturer in China. Total sales in 2004 5,079,000 vehicles. How many Honda's were sold last year? If Honda is really into hybrids, why the very limited numbers built? I think they would like to get out of the hybrid business, but don't know how to get out gracefully"
So you mean to say that VW had a 14% drop in US sales due to the Passad TDI able to be sold in CA? How many TDIs did VW sell before CA stopped their sale? I think that should answer your theory.
As for Honda, its a smaller company than VW, no one is debating that. However, where are the 'transmissions failing by the thousands' figures from, and the car fires? Do you want me to go into the sludge and coil issues that VW has had? And how about the fused bulbs that VW cars have as a trademark? To all the contributors in this forum, I request you to please keep an eye out for VWs on the road, and please note the large majority that has one or the other bulb fused. Would appreciate if you can post your observations.
Also, please check up on the VW sales drop worldwide not just in the US. Honda sales have been going up comparitively. Anyway, I as a US buyer am more concerned what the manufacturer is doing in the US, than in Europe or Asia. Sure, in China VW is really strong, that's because they have been there for eons! In India, Suzuki has a 44% market share out of a million vehicles sold every year, does that mean they are better than VW/Audi, who sell really few Audi's there?
As for Honda trying to get out of the Hybrid business, I disagree with you on that, and only time will tell. I believe both Honda and Toyota will make great inroads into Hybrid technology, and the day isn't far when most of their offerings will have a hybrid option. Also, there is no discounting the fact that there could be diesel hybrids, and again, IMO, these two companies will be at the forefront.
#2550 of 2800 Re: [electrictroy]
Feb 03, 2005 (7:39 am)
us government does not really want high efficient vehicles if so hybrids diesel would be subsidized. Special interest, big oil are heavy spenders in Washington. examples : low tax credit for hybrids, b20, bio deisel lowers emmision on diesels sufficiently, technology here to have clean diesel autos, bosh filter etc.
Most important, Texas a&m has produced an engine starrotor that claims to be multi fuel, 4 times more efficent and has been running in test stage for months. http://www.starrotor.com
If our government would attack the oil problem like they attacked putting a man on the moon, there would be no oil problem, no Middle East problem and no pollution problem. So to summarize, the problem is not energy it's political will!
#2551 of 2800 Re: Sure the percentages will skew to VW in a VW Honda fleet comparo [03accordman]
Feb 03, 2005 (8:07 am)
Let me put it annother way, If I said the nod went to the Civic, over a VW with reverse numbers; 48k on the Civic and 6k on the TDI: then what would you say?
Feb 03, 2005 (9:00 am)
I was just talking to a coworker who drove both a Prius, an Insight, and a VW Golf. He chose to buy the Golf Diesel, and I asked him why:
"Because the diesel was the only car that could climb the North Carolina mountains without slowing down or shifting, and still give me 40 mpg."
#2553 of 2800 Lack of education - all cars eat fuel when climbing...
Feb 03, 2005 (9:07 am)
Well, that's one man's opinion. Glad he likes his Golf. I took my HCH on a mountain climbing trip up to 12,000 feet last Fall and I got 48.8 MPG on a 300 mile day trip up and back down.
But once again, let me repeat: All cars with ANY ENGINE will do poorly on MPG when climbing steep grades. It's called "gravity" and it pulls on any vehicle.
#2554 of 2800 Re: Lack of education - all cars eat fuel when climbing... [larsb]
Feb 03, 2005 (9:42 am)
Well certainly it is! Just like buying an HCH is one man's opinion?? Through the rocky mountains I got 48 miles a gal also. It was a 606 mile trip that took 7 hrs.with two 15 min nature breaks.So I considered getting 48 mpg remarkable, given the above conditions! I wish all my cars did this "poorly"
#2555 of 2800 Re: [electrictroy]
Feb 03, 2005 (9:45 am)
Interesting. Last Spring Me and my family of 5 took a trip from Atlanta into Franklin, NC and rented a mountain top cabin. We drove another 50 or so miles sightseeing at the Antique tourist traps there, still in the Blueridge Mountains. Two days later we headed south and went to Charleston, SC via Greensboro on the coast and spent another 2 days touring the WWII aircraft carrier, submarine etc and had a blast. The mountains and long, drawn out rolling hills never quit until almost to the coast. Luggage weight was likely around 350lbs and it all went into the trunk.
When we reached Atlanta again I calculated 53MPG trip average.
Your co-worker's test Insight must have been malfunctioning if they couldn't even get 40MPG.