Last post on Oct 13, 2010 at 4:13 PM
You are in the Pontiac GTO
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Pontiac GTO, Coupe
#3954 of 4353 Re: More pics of strut rub/blown bushings [hammen2]
Mar 27, 2006 (12:19 pm)
i want to thank everyone who has been providing very usefull information about the strut bushing problem, gm contact info, and updated alightment specs.
i have been considering purchasing a new 2006 and now have some thoughts on that for any one also considering such a purchase.
first of all, the cost of non oem strut bushings and tires must be factored in. the chance thata bushing will fail after the warranty period is great as is the tire damage. second, the information regarding the bushing failure, liklihood of alignment issues, etc. must be brought to the sales manager's attention at the time the deal is negotiated. i for one will speak witht the pontiac service manager about all this before i even start the negotiations.
second, gm/holden must issue a recall with a new bushing design to fix the problem. i agree that nhtsa must be notified asap by every gto owner.
if every gto owner notifies nhtsa, it will commence an investigation and given the seriousness of the damage to the tire, and a liklihood of blow out, would mandate a recall.
thanks to all. rr70
#3955 of 4353 Re: More pics of strut rub/blown bushings [roadrunner70]
Mar 28, 2006 (12:33 pm)
I think all you need to do is have the dealer replace the OEM bushings with Noltec or Pedders. Parts should be between $175-$250 and should take under an hour to install. The car will need an alignment. If you do this when you buy the car, and have the alignment checked and have them look for visible signs of strut rub during tire rotations, you'll do fine...
Remember, if you get the optional 18" summer-only tires and wheels, they are only a 235-sized tire and generally won't rub. All Monaros come with 18"ers from stock - GMNA downsized the tires to 17's (but increased the size to 245) due to concern about crappy roads and ride quality/bent rims...
I agree that anyone who has experienced this issue should notify NHTSA at http://www.nhtsa.gov
I know a large number of GTO owners are on-line, but not all, and not a large percentage of on-line folks know about this potentially-serious issue. Hopefully GM becomes proactive rather than reactive and begins to notify 2004-2006 GTO owners... in the meantime, it's best to be proactive yourself...
#3956 of 4353 Re: Wheel/Tire pic [b4z]
Mar 28, 2006 (8:21 pm)
Can you post some more pics of your rims? I am going to get a torrid red M6 and really wanted the 17's but the only one they have coming in has 18's which I dont really care for.
#3957 of 4353 goat alignment is complete. 7 days. $250
Mar 29, 2006 (7:21 am)
hi. i thought you all might be amused or curious about my 05 goat's alignment issues. car has ~15k miles. the alignment took 7 days to complete at a cost of about $250. i find this to be extremely curious and consistent with the known issues regarding GTO strut-bushings/strut-rub/etc/etc. here are the details and cost breakdown and parts that were delivered apparently via outrigger-canoe from australia.
"customer reports excessive tire wear, please check and advise". response: performed front end alignment. excessive negative camber on vehicle. labor: $78 .
(alignment reports indicates that the alignment was in fact very close to being WITHIN FACTORY SPEC to begin with (below)).
"align: check steering, suspension, shocks, tie-rods, ball joints, tires, set tire pressure, toe-in, camber, caster, road test". labor: $79.95 (again). parts: $56.
installed 92138205 NUT 06164-PC (4 $4.85). installed 92138049 washer (06178-PC) 4$1.64. installed 11090821 bolt 06009-PC 4$7.60 . "additional parts needed for strut hardware to complete alignment properly". service rep indicated verbally that they had to drill out the old parts. i find this bizarre. the car is 10 months old - why were the parts "frozen"?
bottom line is that the alignment cost me over $200 . maybe they charged me for the labor twice but i do believe that it took them considerable hours to do this work. i will enquire as to whether they charged for the labor twice. i still like this dealership and believe they are honest. i will probably reporting all of this to that Jorge dude at GM (thanks for his info, Robert).
i do not plan to notify NHTSA as i do not necessarily/yet agree there is a safety problem here.
here is the portion of before/after vehicle alignment info which looks signficant to me. first # is "before" middle numbers are spec-range. final # is "after".
caster left 8.9 (6.5-9.0) 8.9
caster right 9.3 (6.5-9.0) 9.3 [still OUT OF SPEC!]
camber left -0.6 (-0.7 0.3) 0.1
front camber right -0.4 (-0.7 0.3) 0.0
toe left 0.10 (0.00 - 0.15) 0.10
toe right -0.10 (0.00 0.15) 0.10
toe total 0.00 (0.00 0.35) 0.25
camber left -1.4 (-1.7 -0.4) -1.5
camber right -1.5 (-1.7 -0.4) -1.5
toe left 0.10 (0.05 0.35) 0.10
rear toe right (0.05 (0.05 - 0.35) 0.00 [OUT OF SPEC!]
toe total 0.15 (0.05 0.75) 0.10
thrust angle 0.0 (0.2) 0.1
(the "front/rear" doesn't really match up with the other columns on their printout - i have reflected that discrepancy above).
all the secondary angles are unchanged according to their report and are within the spec #s on their printout so i am not mentioning those.
i put in a call to the service rep and asked him to comment on why after a week and $250, two of the alignment numbers are still out of spec. i do pity the guy for having to put up with my incredible nitpicking. but hey, that's the way it goes. now to go look up that Jorge guys info.
#3958 of 4353 Re: goat alignment is complete. 7 days. $250 [elias]
Mar 30, 2006 (7:17 am)
This is all pretty sad, to be honest. If the strut rod bushings are blown, this is all for naught. With the bushings flopping around as you drive, the alignment is constantly changing based on whether you are accelerating, braking, and/or turning. Obviously, you are only interested in getting the car right, regardless of effort or cost required. This is honorable. Your experience is why I don't purchase extended warranties. A warranty is only as good as the people "honoring" the warranty. I've found very few dealer service people who have the knowledge, ability, attitude and backing from the manufacturer to do anything right on a consistant basis. If I can troubleshoot the problem (with which the internet helps immeasurably), most of the time I have better results repairing it myself, and not even involve the dealer service department. About 50% of the time they actually break/scratch/damage something else anyway. Just not hardly worth the frustration, short of a major failure of some kind.
#3959 of 4353 Re: goat alignment is complete. 7 days. $250 [white6]
Mar 30, 2006 (6:30 pm)
thanks white6. it is sorta sad alright. i'm also annoyed with myself for not telling them the brakes are pulsing a bit - front rotor is obviously warped a bit - wheel shakes as i brake and i feel the pulsing. maybe i'll wait until september/inspection time to have them deal with that. not sure how much i'll drive the car this summer, probably just a couple of times per week. not even sure if machining the rotors would have been appropritae. nowadays the cure for pulsing brakes is to replace the rotors usually, eh? ugh.
while the new alignment is still technically out of spec according to their own #s i am fairly confident it will be better than before. they sure worked on it long enough. i don't think the bushings are blown - the car does not wander during heavy braking at all. i gotta admit i'm wondering if i should have gone the extra $$$ for a C6 vette. bro-in-law just got a red C6 convertible with all options. i haven't seen him in a year but i told him that the fact he bought a vette tells me that he is way more bald than when i last saw him. inbetween curses he told me i was right about that.
#3960 of 4353 Re: goat alignment is complete. 7 days. $250 [elias]
Mar 31, 2006 (5:36 am)
"I haven't seen him in a year but i told him that the fact he bought a vette tells me that he is way more bald than when i last saw him."
That's great! I have considered a Vette before; my primary reservation is the "look at me" styling. I don't like to feel like I'm on display. That said, if I wanted one that bad, I would probably go ahead and get one anyway. I like the subdued styling of the GTO (not to mention the much easier ingress/egress).
I have to agree with you; one obvious symptom of blown bushings is the wandering under hard braking. In fact, that's how I ruined mine; bedding new pads after converting to a set of 05 front brake calipers/rotors. After returning from said bedding, noticed two pools of fluid under the front of the car. Upon closer examination, witnessed drips coming from front strut bushings. Amazing.
#3961 of 4353 Re: goat alignment is complete. 7 days. $250 [white6]
Mar 31, 2006 (6:15 am)
ouch, sorry to hear about your goat bushings demise. but good that you noticed right away. today i noticed that my $250-alignment goat's steering wheel is slightly off-center compared to how it was from the factory. combining that with the fact that the $250 alignment printout shows one measurement just as out of spec as before they adjusted it, and another one out of spec after when it was in spec before, that means i will definitely be burning more of my copious spare time getting my car back to the dealership for a "re-take".
i deal with repairing similar sorts of "possible design flaws" in my job (software) and have a lot of sympathy for the mechanic who has this case. it would truly suck if a "re-take" like this ends up coming out of the mechanics pocket. he is working hard and deserves to get paid. i know that for most repairs the mechanic's pay is determined out of a "reference book" which lists # of hours for a particular job. if the mechanic finishes the job quicker, that's extra $ for him. if he is slow to finish, that's his own time & money being lost. so if "alignment" is listed in this book as just 1 hour labor, this mechanic is really getting screwed.
i have already notified the GM guy Jorge via voice mail of the situation and will leave him a followup too.
if the dealer fails again after this 2nd try i'm not sure what i will do. maybe find an aftermarket speed-shop with whatever it takes to get the job done.
#3962 of 4353 styling / Re: goat alignment is INcomplete. 7 days. $250 [white6]
Mar 31, 2006 (6:22 am)
re the "look at me" styling of vette vs. GTO - that's one reason i went for the GTO in the most subdued color possible - to avoid extra attention. also that's why i removed the GTO tags from the side and replaced rear bumper cover with the Holden part that is flat-black and does not say "G T O" in huge letters.
it didn't work though - i've mentioned here before that the GTO gets an incredible amount of attention on the road - EVERY TIME i drive it. kids yell at me constantly (usually good things). other (young) drivers start to drive maniacally after they see my goat - either to try to race me or just to position in traffic so they can see the car better or hang out their window while yelling and gesticulating at me to "goose" the goat - they want to hear the exhaust sound. the exhaust sure does sound awesome - and the other drivers antics are funny the first few times but gets old really fast.
from what i've seen the GTO gets substantially M O R E attention than does C6, a camaro, or a hopped up mustang.
if i keep this car much longer my next step might be to buy an 04/smooth hood and get it painted/installed, and to remove the rear spoiler too. one concern i have about the spoiler is that i plan to road-course the car after warranty is over - if i keep it that long. maybe the road course speeds are slow enough that spoiler would not add any value...
#3963 of 4353 Re: styling / Re: goat alignment is INcomplete. 7 days. $250 [elias]
Apr 01, 2006 (6:54 am)
I can't imagine that the rear spoiler is anything other than cosmetic. Plus, it blocks rearward vision. I purchased a trunk lid from a salvage yard, had the holes welded up, and refinished. Trunk lid cost me $225, another $400 to have the holes welded and refinished. I still have my original trunk w/spoiler stored up on top of a cabinet in the garage. Every mod I do, I make sure I can reverse (just in case). I should be receiving my VZ Monaro front bumper today from FedEx. Have to call Australia now to order the upper and lower grills and misc. hardware to complete the "nose job."