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Pontiac GTO

4353 messages,  Last post on Oct 13, 2010 at 5:13 PM

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What is this discussion about? Pontiac GTO, Coupe

Messages Page 317 of 436

#3158 of 4353 Re: The GTO should be apart of the Employee Price... [omegagen] by hammen2

Aug 02, 2005 (8:29 pm)

Replying to: omegagen (Aug 02, 2005 7:45 pm)
They can only make 12k per year. At the current sales pace, they would sell more than they can make in a year. At this pace they will be sold out before the 2006's make it to dealers in quantity. Why should they lower the price?
 
They sold nearly 1500 cars during the one month the cars were available at employee price (though the deal was actually better the month before, with incentives and finance rate taken into account).
 
You want one? Pony up (should still be able to get one for GM in the Driveway pricing), buy an '04, or buy used). Do NOT expect to see reduced prices on these cars - they are selling! Don't forget, Ford can make almost 200k Mustangs/yr. GM can import 12k GTO's in a year. They DON'T want to sell them anywhere near as fast as the Mustang - because they can't, and probably never will, make them anywhere near those quantities.
 
If you look at my post above you will see the car is selling well in areas where GM typically doesn't: LA, Miami, NYC.
 
I also think the tide of public opinion on the car is turning - the car did not deserve the bashing it got. And, not everyone wants an "in-your-face" car like the Mustang. I prefer the clean lines of my GTO, and the fact that it IS a sleeper in traffic (unless I stomp on the pedal, so others can hear the exhaust, and/or burn rubber).
 
Having said that, it's likely gone after 2006 (the contract with Holden was only for three years), to return as a 2008 or 2009 model year, with more Pontiac-themed styling. This may not be a good thing...
 
Remember, the 1964 goat was just a plain-jane Tempest with a big motor...
 
On this point:
Maybe they should just cut their MSRP to more realistic prices, instead of all these "willy-nilly" sales and rebates programs.
 
This is PRECISELY what GM is doing for the 2006 models. Only thing is, the GTO price isn't changing. Slow sales are NOT a problem for the 2005's.
 
--Robert

#3159 of 4353 Suspension Clank by mustang_svt

Aug 03, 2005 (5:00 am)

I've got an '05 A4 ... and a slight problem. On certain bumps I get a clanking sound from the suspension. Mentioned it to the dealer at oil change time and they did say they found a loose plate underneath and tightened it up. I asked the service writer to point it out to me but he was unsure and the mechanics had gone home for the day. The sound did disappear for a day, but now, one week later, its back in full force. You'd think with the 18 miles that were put on it while in the care of the dealer that they would have nailed this thing. Is anyone else getting this sound, and if so, what has been the cure? I'd like to provide some hints to the service writer when this thing goes back.
 
Thanx

#3160 of 4353 Re: The GTO should be apart of the Employee Price... [hammen2] by kevm14

Aug 03, 2005 (6:05 am)

Replying to: hammen2 (Aug 02, 2005 8:29 pm)
This is PRECISELY what GM is doing for the 2006 models. Only thing is, the GTO price isn't changing.
 
I think this move will help resale of GMs and slowly wean people off rebates and incentives. Though GM is only revamping something like 30/70 of their models.

#3161 of 4353 hammen2 by rorr

Aug 03, 2005 (6:11 am)

"They can only make 12k per year."
 
Are you saying the assembly plant in Australia is only CAPABLE of making 12k per year for the U.S. market? Bull. They were certainly CAPABLE of making 18k for 2004. Something tells me if the car was a smash hit with waiting lists at dealers, GM would find a way for that factory to make more than 12k per year.
 
"GM can import 12k GTO's in a year."
 
Is there some sort of trade agreement between the U.S. and Australia that I am unaware of regarding maximum exportation units per year? Weren't they able to import 18k units in 2004?
 
The fact is that the initial sales target for '04 was 18k units. Initial sales were slower than hoped by GM so to avoid have another large batch of cars languish on the lots for '05, GM decided internally that the number of units imported for '05 would only be 12k units. This was a DECISION made by GM.
 
It would be much more accurate to state that "GM will only make 12k per year" or "GM will import 12k GTO's in a year".

#3162 of 4353 Re: hammen2 [rorr] by gxpgtodanman

Aug 03, 2005 (7:30 am)

Replying to: rorr (Aug 03, 2005 6:11 am)
You are correct, because of lack of GTO sales in 2004 GM reduced production from 18k cars to 12k cars for 2005.
 
It's kind of hard to sell a car that you don't promote or advertise. That said the GTO is selling much better this year then last year. In my area the 3 pontiac dealers don't have any 2004 or 2005 on their lots.

#3163 of 4353 Re: July GTO sales [hammen2] by midwesttrader

Aug 03, 2005 (7:39 am)

Replying to: hammen2 (Aug 02, 2005 6:14 pm)
In a few months there could be '04, '05, and '06 GTOs on the same greedy dealer's lot. There are plenty of '05s available around here. How many of the 7700 sold this year were '04s? I'm guessing about 15-20%. GM doesn't seem too anxious for that info to come out. They only want to talk about huge sales increases over last years terrible sales numbers. Rorr is right. They reduced the production number so they won't get stuck with a ton of cars that they have to unload at fire sale prices in the Fall (like last year).
 
My interest in this car has completely faded. Reading about all the problems with the '05 on other boards has convinced me that this car is made for the type of owner that is ok with constantly dealing with warranty issues in exchange for that 400 hp. That's not me. Especially not for $30K.
 
BTW - be careful posting GTO sales numbers. The last time I did that I got in trouble with one of our fine hosts.
 
PS - Robert, glad to see you're a fan of the space program. Unfortunately the downfall of NASA was the creation of the United Space Alliance in 1996. Gave the contractors was to much management and engineering control. That started a talent drain at NASA that continues to this day.

#3164 of 4353 Re: July GTO sales [midwesttrader] by sensai

Aug 03, 2005 (7:50 am)

Replying to: midwesttrader (Aug 03, 2005 7:39 am)
Just what problems are you reading about? Almost 9k miles on my 05 and the only thing I need to have fixed is a slight rattle somewhere around the door lock. You can go to any car board from a Toyota to a Ferrari and read about tons of problems because people post when they have problems, not when they are problem free.

#3165 of 4353 Re: hammen2 [gxpgtodanman] by rorr

Aug 03, 2005 (8:29 am)

Replying to: gxpgtodanman (Aug 03, 2005 7:30 am)
"It's kind of hard to sell a car that you don't promote or advertise."
 
Agreed. But, given the car's many merits the car really shouldn't need a tremendous amount of advertising. Sales ARE up compared to '04 models despite the little/no advertising. Look at it from a historical perspective; what were the sales numbers for the first year (or two) of the original GTO?
 
It just rubs me wrong when the numbers imported are presented in such a way that it sounds like GM had no choice and due to factors beyond their control but to limit the number brought over. AFAIK, the number imported was simply a corporate decision. We can argue all we want about whether or not the number decided on was valid or not. It doesn't change the fact that IF the GTO was selling like a house on fire, with months long waiting list around the country, that GM would somehow find a way to get more than 12k here (if not for the '05 models then certainly for '06).
 
Does anyone know the projected number of units for '06?

#3166 of 4353 Re: hammen2 [rorr] by hammen2

Aug 03, 2005 (9:09 am)

Replying to: rorr (Aug 03, 2005 6:11 am)
Are you saying the assembly plant in Australia is only CAPABLE of making 12k per year for the U.S. market? Bull. They were certainly CAPABLE of making 18k for 2004. Something tells me if the car was a smash hit with waiting lists at dealers, GM would find a way for that factory to make more than 12k per year.
 
You will remember that the GTO is built in Australia because GM did not have the platform or an assembly line to build a large RWD coupe. Holden had to add a third shift to increase production. The goal was to produce 18k cars for MY 2004. They only made 16k, because that was all they could do in nearly 14 months of 2004 GTO production. The goal for 10 months of 2005 production was 12k cars. A year from now the GTO production line will likely be gone, so I have no idea how many they plan to make for the 2006 model year. Note also that they stopped building 2005's in early July, because they did not want to repeat the mistake of last year where new 2004's were still arriving at dealerships in December (will be September this year, most likely).
 
It is also important to note that the GTO does not ride the same exact production line that the Commodore, Ute, Adventra, et. al. do. At some point in the production process, it's pulled off the main line, where it basically becomes a custom manufacturing project. This was fine when they were making 4k Monaros a year, but when they are trying to make 20+k Monaros, GTO's, Lumina SS (yes, this car is sold as a Chevy in the Middle East), Vauxhall Monaros for the UK, and then shells for the HSV Coupe4, GTO, and GTS, well, this is a problem.
 
The original plan was that the next-gen (Zeta) cars would be built either in the US (Detroit-Hamtramck) or Canada (Oshawa 2) assembly plants. In an effort to streamline their assembly, Holden was to remove the Monaro/GTO custom assembly line from their plant once they started building Zeta cars. Since Zeta is dead for NA assembly, they are clearly scrambling to come up with plan B. I believe the current plan is to move some of Holden's export assembly (Middle East? China?) to one of the former Daewoo, now GMDAT facilities in Korea, thus freeing up production capacity in Elizabeth. I am also assuming that the Zeta assembly line will implement flexible manufacturing, meaning they should be able to produce Commodores, Monaros, and GTO's on the same line, but I don't know this for sure.
 
Regardless, they will have increased production capacity in Australia in a couple of years. I am also assuming that GM will draw a hard line with the UAW and not allow them to restrict the import above 18k vehicles - since the GM product plans I'm aware of have the RWD Commodore-based Grand Prix replacement (confusingly known as the "GTO Sedan" in GM product planning literature), will also likely be built in Australia alongside the GTO.
 
Bottom line is, with the current manufacturing abilities at Elizabeth, they can't find ways to make more than maybe 14k cars for U.S. export in a calendar year. They are going to fix this problem, but it will take a couple of years. I think they'll have increased capacity for the '08 or '09 model, whatever it turns out to be. If those sell, they will probably have additional production capacity, maybe at Oshawa-2 (Oshawa is supposed to get flex manufacturing abilities, and, without the Grand Prix and LaCrosse assembly, that line won't have any product assigned to it, unless it gets some Epsilon-2 (Malibu, G6, Aura, LaCrosse replacement) product assigned to it.
 
The fact is that the initial sales target for '04 was 18k units. Initial sales were slower than hoped by GM so to avoid have another large batch of cars languish on the lots for '05, GM decided internally that the number of units imported for '05 would only be 12k units. This was a DECISION made by GM.
 
Did GM state this in a press release, or is this the "conventional wisdom"/just some analyst's guess as to why they only imported 12k? If you look at the production rate of '04 models (16k produced per month, divided by 14 months) you end up with 1,142 per month. Multiply that by 10 months of production for '05 and you end up with 11,420 cars - close to the 12k they were trying to build for '05. Taking this out further, if they start '06 production next week, and run through next June, that would be 12,500 cars. Of course, they are building the special CV8-Z Monaro only through the end of this year - don't know if this means they can make more GTO's, or if production ability will be restricted by the Zeta assembly line changeover.
 
Not making excuses for GM - just relating some of the facts and issues that I'm aware of. Some of this information is "forward-looking" and subject to change (after all, Zeta NA assembly got whacked)...
 
--Robert

#3167 of 4353 Re: Suspension Clank [mustang_svt] by hammen2

Aug 03, 2005 (9:30 am)

Replying to: mustang_svt (Aug 03, 2005 5:00 am)
How many miles on your car?
Have you checked the tire pressure? Seriously. The cars ship from Australia with 60 lbs psi and the dealers are "supposed to" reduce this to 35 psi, but 90+% of them don't bother to read the PDI. I drove my first car like this for a couple of weeks and it definitely hosed my rear suspension (bent control arms) - one of the reasons I am on car #2.
 
I've heard of two different causes of clunking noise on the GTO. The first relates to the driveline contacting the body - this was prevalent on early-build '04's, and a TSB was issued. This shouldn't apply to '05's.
 
The second is the exhaust system not hanging right/banging against the body. This is definitely a possibility. Might want to see if you can get it up on a lift.
 
When my suspension was messed up, I pulled everything out of the trunk (including the jack, spare tire and its cover) and my banging went down substantially. Might want to make sure this isn't your issue.
 
Hope this helps,
 
--Robert

Messages Page 317 of 436

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