Ford Focus ZX3 / SVT vs. Honda Civic Si / RSX - READ ONLY

232 messages,  Last post on Aug 15, 2009 at 8:47 AM

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What is this discussion about? Ford Focus, Honda Civic, Acura RSX, Coupe, Hatchback

#13 of 232 by anonymousposts

Dec 01, 2002 (5:52 pm)

On the recalls ...
Ford has issued 11 recalls on the Ford Focus since it's introduction here. The Civic has had 3 recalls since it's redesign in 2001. 11 recalls vs. 3 is a HUGE difference. On top of that the Focus is currently in the midst of SIX more investigations by NHTSA.

http://www.jsonline.com/wheels/peak/nov02/93157.asp

A little quote from the article:

"Ford has sold 817,552 Focus cars in the U.S. since 1999, according to Autodata Corp. figures. The recalls announced today represent 70% of that total"

By comparison the 3 recalls on the Civic totalled approximately 186,000 cars out of 700,000 sold, or roughly 26%. It has since had no recalls and is not currently the subject of any investigations.

On the TSB's ..
www.alldata.com provides TSB information. According to this the Civic had 26 TSB's in 2001 and 3 in 2002. The Focus had 30 in 2000 and then if you wade through all of the recalls you will see that it had 30 again in 2001. Looks obvious to me that Honda's reputation for steadily improving and maintaining the quality of their products is at work while Ford is showing why they are near the bottom on most consumer quality surveys in the US.

The Euro-built Focus' quality does not do US buyers any good. That does not speak alot for Ford's manufacturing and quality control process if a car can have stellar reliability in 1 country and terrible reliability in another. Honda is highly rated throughout all of it's markets.

You can harp on the oil consumption and the rattles if you like but it's interesting to note that the reviewers themselves had no significant problems with either issue. They had no unscheduled repairs and in the end they enthusiastically recommended the CTR and said that they actually missed it. Additionally, the CTR engine is not identical to the engine that we get here in the US. It's more closely related to the Acura RSX-S engine.

#14 of 232 5 door SVT for 03 by moparbad

Dec 01, 2002 (6:30 pm)

The fun SVT Focus has a 5 door available in 2003. I've always liked the practicality of a hatch and this one offers quite a lot of performance also. I was considering a SVT and went with the Si due to the excellent initial value (I paid less than $16K) and better resale value compared to a Focus. If they were the same price I would take a SVT 5 door Focus over the Honda.

#15 of 232 No more harping by vadp

Dec 01, 2002 (7:07 pm)

O.K.
I took a look at clubrsx.com and their problems forum. http://forums.clubrsx.com/
Performed a quick search for "oil" and look what I've found:

"another problem is that my car looses oil. from 7500 to 15000 miles it burned 2 quarts and in the last 1000 miles it burned 1 quart, which is now mobil 1 and kind of expensive."

And

"I have been checking RSX Type S's oil levels before I change oil & I can tell you they are oil consumers.Most are at least 1 quart low after about 3k.If you wait longer they will be even lower."

And

"I think acura is feeding customers a line here. There is no way a car should consume 1 qt of oil for every 1000K, that means that for the life of the average oil change you will put at least 3-4 qt's of oil in the car?. I'm ready to go in and return the car; I refuse to incur cost for someone else’s mistake."

And

"I check my oil 1-2 times per week. For the first 4300 miles it used .2 quarts, and 5000 miles later at the second oil change another .2 quarts. I now have 11,000 miles and I have used about .3 quarts in the last 2000 miles."

And
 
"do you guys think we should collect signature and send it to Acura for oil comsumption problem, because i remember that Chris or someone did collect our name and VIN# for the 2nd grind before just wondering should we do the same thing for Oil consumption???????"
 
And
 
"This is my 3rd Homda product as well. The other two have never burned a drop of oil. My car doesn't burn quite as much as yours, but it's about 1 quart every 1,500 to 2,000 miles."
 
And so on...

Thank you, anonymousposts.
You kinda pushed me in the right direction so I was able to find an answer to my question.

Good luck with your Civic.
It's not on my list anymore.

#16 of 232 Check out this crazy theory.. by vadp

Dec 01, 2002 (7:47 pm)

for the origins of the problem (upside down rings)
 
http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29097&highlight=upside+down+rings"
 
and another oil burning thread:
 
http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35134&highlight=oil

#17 of 232 Okay, the bashing is getting pretty tiresome.... by revka

Dec 01, 2002 (9:08 pm)

Instead of searching for lemons on the internet, or researching the NHTSA data base for recalls/tsb's on the vehicle you don't own, how about some actual first hand experiences?
 
Aside from moparbad (post 11), has anyone else here shopped the Focus and Civic Si side by side? Or even test driven the vehicle here that they do not own?
 
How about an lists of objective pro/cons for each vehicle? What made you decide on one over the other?
 
Was reliability your main concern, or were there other features and options which made one stand out over the other...?
 
Also try to do this without bashing the vehicle you did not choose.
Is there anything about the other vehicle that you wish your vehicle had?
 
That would be more interesting, imo. Who's game?
 
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards

#19 of 232 I wish my SI has 17" rims + summer tires, 6 speed, 10HP more, by hamproof

Dec 02, 2002 (6:57 am)

metallic pedals, bigger disk brakes, better sound system.
 
Should be good enough for Revka.

#20 of 232 by anonymousposts

Dec 02, 2002 (9:48 am)

With the exception of the 6 speed transmission your SI can have everything on your wish list.
 
I chose the SI because of it's smooth transmission, smooth engine, prior Honda experiences, and comfy seats. I did not even consider the Focus because of it's past history involving several potentially life-threatening problems as opposed to one problem that can be monitored or even avoided with proper break-in techniques.

#21 of 232 Say in a year or 2 when all the problems w/ the Focus are fixed by hamproof

Dec 02, 2002 (10:04 am)

keeping in mind the current crop of Focuses are better built than when it was first introduced in US, will you still consider the reliability as a deterrant factor??
 
Of course it still will be for you coz' of your blind loyalty to the H.
 
No matter what anyone says, the Si will always be the best car period under $20k.
 
Shortcomings from other cars are not acceptable but shortcomings from the Si are acceptable. Notably the smaller rims, excessive oil consumption, buzzing and rattling from trims, dash bubbling, lower HP compared to competition etc.
 
A note for everyone. No point trying to debate anything with anony. In the end, anony will always point out the unquestionable iron clad reliability of the Civic over any other car and she'll say 160HP is enough for most people. Let's not forget the seats and most important of all, the H emblem.

#22 of 232 by anonymousposts

Dec 02, 2002 (10:21 am)

Reading your post makes my wonder why you bought the SI and not the Focus.
 
Smaller rims are not a problem. A set of 17" SSR GT1's complete with tires runs about $1200. Stock 17" wheels do no good if you don't like the design of them in the first place. I'd rather have the 15"s as winter tires and the 17" as summer tires.
 
I read the owner's manual, followed the break-in period religiously (even gave it a couple hundred extra miles because people were reporting slight oil consumption at the beginning) and to date my car has burned 1 quart of oil and has not burned any since 3000 miles.
 
Buzzing and rattling? What buzzing and rattling. Guess I got the perfect SI.
 
Dash bubbling? 1 owner reported this on Edmunds. I have not seen any other reports of this and obviously my car doesn't do this either.
 
The SI has 10 less HP than the Focus to go along with it's 10 less recalls. It has 15 less HP than the Spec-V which has a rear axle and was a sedan. Even with the HP disadvantage and having one less gear it is within .3 seconds of both above-mentioned cars. It also gets the best observed fuel economy by 6MPG. These numbers are from the Nov. 2002 issue of R&T.
 
You are right, there is no point trying to debate anything because when all of the facts are considered the SI is the best hatch under $18,000 (I now consider the Mazda 6 to be the best car at the $20,000 mark). What it lacks in tire size and HP it makes up with a more efficient engine, better safety, better projected reliability, and it comes from a company that has long since proved that when it comes to performance oriented cars that will start every morning and save you at the gas pump they can't be beat.
 
Did I mention the Ford Focus only scores 1 star in rear occupant safety? Is that worth a .3 second advantage to you? If it is, just don't put a baby seat in the back.

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