Last post on Dec 07, 2013 at 2:45 PM
You are in the Prices Paid - Buying & Leasing Experiences
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Honda CR-V, Wagon, SUV
#12290 of 13045 Re: CRV EX-L in DC area [charles_guy]
May 09, 2013 (2:47 am)
The one time I considered a vehicle from Ourisman I quickly realized they did not offer the best deal and I decided to walk. As an easy escape mechanism, I mentioned I was only interested in a white vehicle. I had observed earlier they did not have any white vehicles on the lot.
Amusingly the sales manager, a real sleeze IMHO, mentioned he would be happy to get one for me. Of course it would cost an additional $1,000. I quickly asked why he thought I would pay an additional $1,000 for a vehicle I knew was in inventory at several other local Honda dealers. He sort of smiled but really did not say much. Any opportunity for an additional buck I suppose.
I wonder how many times such games actually work?
#12291 of 13045 Re: NJ CRV LX AWD [sfurqan]
May 09, 2013 (2:59 am)
I just bought a new CRV in Virginia.
After we negotatiated the price of the vehicle, I was hit with a $600 documentation fee. I responded to the sales lady that was unacceptable and I would only pay $100. I also told her I understood the sales contract had to show the $600 so as to avoid potential discrimination suits for the dealer. I requested they reduce the sales price to compensate or I would walk. Without much hoopla, they quickly reduced the price.
People really need to understand the documentation fee charged by any dealer is essentially profit. That fee must be added to the price of the vehicle to arrive at the true selling price.
Any argument made by a dealer that the fee covers unusual costs is inaccurate. All dealer costs are included in the selling price of the vehicle. The price of any product includes the cost plus profit, that is basic cost accounting. Separating the price and the documentation fee is intended solely to deceive a buyer into thinking they got a better deal.
#12292 of 13045 Re: NJ CRV LX AWD [billy3554]
May 09, 2013 (6:42 am)
NIce post.......... Doc fee's are.... BS'.... just another way dealers make a few more dollars. If you buy a car for 500 below invoice price and you pay 300 in dealer doc fees that means the dealer really sold you the car for 200 below invoice. Dont let them sucker you.
Always know the dealerships doc fees before you make that dealership your offer price to buy. If the dealership will not remove his high doc fees i simply add them onto my offer price to counter not paying them.
Doc fees of 75, maybe 100 are ok if your getting a good deal but not 200 to 700 dollars added onto that sale price , dispute and fight these charges tell dealers its a deal breaker.
#12293 of 13045 Re: NJ CRV LX AWD [brian125]
May 10, 2013 (4:58 am)
It is not that profit for a car dealer is bad, everyone needs to make a fair profit. It is the fact most car dealers find it fair to resort to deceptive documentation or other dealer fees to achieve that profit that is wrong.
A good source for car sales is prepared by a long time Toyota Dealer in Florida. And, as we all know, car dealers in Florida have perfected this art of deception to an advaned level.
To disseminate this information he apparently has a radio program and a web site Earl Stewart On Cars which has a wonderful amount of information. Apparently other car dealers in Florida are not happy with Mr. Stewart. Of course, we customers are very happy.
His revelations regarding automobile dealer fees include.
Dealers always call such fees by obscure names to confuse customers.
Dealers always try to include the word fee in the name as it suggests someting legal, which it is not.
Dealers charge such fees solely to increase profits in a manner that is not noticed by the customer.
Dealers can price a vehicle below MSRP or cost and end up making a huge profit via the various dealer fees
Anyone buying a vehicle should take a look at the informatoin available at the On Cars web site. Since it comes from an actual car dealer it is quite enlightening.
#12294 of 13045 Re: NJ CRV LX AWD [billy3554]
May 10, 2013 (6:12 am)
Read an interesting article recently about one of the nation's largest mega car dealership groups. The particular group sells many brands all over the country and proudly announced it averages more than $1,300 in additional profit for each car sold in their finance and insurance, F&I, offices.
F&I folks all over the country are asking how they can achieve such success and there are plenty of folks advising them how.
Now really, how many customers would willingly hand the guy or gal lurking behind the F&I door $1,300 after they spent hours fighting with the sales person about the sales price?
And how much of this $1,300 profit was achieved via deception?
#12295 of 13045 Re: NJ CRV LX AWD [ken117]
May 10, 2013 (6:29 am)
The United States Department of Justice and the Consumer Financial Protection Board are currently investigating auto dealer practices related to financing and those other F&I goodies which comprise such profits. If our dysfunctional Government is concerned there must be some real problems.
One of the concerns causing much consternation among F&I folks is the dealer practice of adding to the actual finance rate for which a customer qualifies. This is the practice where a bank will qualify the customer at two percent and the kindly F&I person will bump the rate to something higher. This is known as dealer reserve. In such cases, the dealer realizes part of the increased financing costs as profit.
Clearly this is deception.
#12296 of 13045 Re: NJ CRV LX AWD [ken117]
May 10, 2013 (6:41 am)
The $1,300 they brag about is an average. That means while I pay very little F&I profit as I never buy anything in the F&I office and always finance at a very low rate there is some other person paying the $2,600 necessary for them to achieve the average of $1,300.
I should probably thank the other person as I likely pay less for the vehicle due to their willingness to contribute so much to the dealer's bottom line.
#12297 of 13045 Re: NJ CRV LX AWD [billy3554]
May 11, 2013 (10:07 am)
Let me add to this post. This is how you arrive at finding a good price for your model car and what it is selling for in your area. All new car price purchases should be formulated like this below; When you buy like this you need nobody else to help you with pricing. This involves only you contacting many dealerships to find out pricing .
The last 2 days of any month is where you will get the dealers best pricing due to sales incentives that dealerships need to make. Never buy any car before the end of the month you wont get the dealers best price. the 1st 3 weeks are for Research emailing /visiting dealerships /getting e-quotes etc. making all dealerships contacted know that your buying at months end for your xxx price. The more dealerships you get involved the better you will do with getting a good price. You have to play the game with these guys..
Here is the starting formula to arrive at price. The suggest dealers MSRP and Invoice price are numbers made up by car manufacturers. We always start with Invoice price. Throw away that msrp number it means nothing. Its there to deceive you. i believe the invoice price is really not the true cost of the vehicle.... but we have no way of really finding out but to take the word of web sites like KBB, consumer reports , edmunds, etc.
Invoice price of xxx
Minus dealer Hold-back
Minus any rebates or cash Incentives
Minus dealers doc fee's/ unless he will remove them off bill of sale.
total cost of vehicle
Add taxes and DMV fee's for your OTD price
Always say no to anything the dealer is selling along with his extended warranty.
You should always get pre approved by outside financing before buying a car making the dealer beat your best finance rate.
If you do these easy things you will always get a good new car price and not get ripped off by car dealerships....
Dealers will receive more company cash sale incentives as the year winds down so if you were to buy a 2013 in july or august you might save up to another 1500 dollars off this formula.
The key factor in getting dealers best pricing is buying at any months end/ getting many dealerships involved.. Using that buyers formula.
#12298 of 13045 College Park (MD) Honda
May 11, 2013 (10:02 am)
FWIW, This is not a dealership I would ever buy a car from, or deal with again. They are listing vehicles on their website that they will not verify as in stock, and the internet sales mangers - and general sales managers - are not at all responsive to emails and do not follow-up. Another local dealership will sell to me at a good price, and at the price I want, but can't get their hands on the model I want, yet College Park - who seems to have it - just won't cooperate with them at all, or me unless I am willing to come in to the dealership, which I won't at this point. Can't get an estimate either, though it's moot without knowing if they can actually give me the car that I want!
#12299 of 13045 Re: College Park (MD) Honda [nikinmd]
May 11, 2013 (10:23 am)
If you make any dealership agree to your buying price by phone negotiations you will not have this problem. you can have him fax you a buyers order or just secure your deal with a credit card deposit till you can get to the dealership. I buy this way 95 % of the time . avoids all the bs.
College park Honda will play games. Thats why i tell everyone................... End of the month is when you start your buying process. Most dealership are looking to make as much money off the Sucker buyers and this is how they play. The smart buyer waits til the end of the Month asking several dealerships to meet his asking price for the sale that day.There is no reason to go into any dealership unless your signing paper work or doing research on that vehicle.. DO the brunt of the work//get your price by phone negotiations with the internet manager. If any dealer cant give you a yes or no on your pricing hang up and move on to the next Herb dealership. You do to them what they do to us. Pit one dealer against the next. Lie to them like they do to you. I always like to tell dealerships that are closest to me that there are 10 dealers at this price.... match or beat for the sale today. You have to play the game.