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#730 of 784 Re: Doc Fees [imidazol97]
Apr 03, 2010 (7:50 am)
Keith, most employees in a dealership are paid on commission. Sales people, sales managers, service advisors, managers and techs, parts people all get all or most of their income from profits in their areas. Only admin people are salaried or hourly. There is nothing wrong with working an OTD price - including any and all fees. Sales Department people are not paid on pack or Doc Fees. However, if they are disclosed and included when working a OTD price or a payment (most buyers being payment buyers) there is nothing wrong with them. What the dealer does with his total profit is his business. It is when they are hidden until the end of the deal that I have a problem with them. In fact, I have a story I will tell later how a Doc Fee sent me to another dealer when i bought my wife a new 05 TL.
#731 of 784 Re: Doc Fees [imidazol97]
Apr 03, 2010 (8:01 am)
No, they put the advertising cost in the product. Actually, RAG (Regional Advertising) funds are part of the invoice and included in the MSRP. Doc fees are a dealer add. Either way, you are going to pay for both. Does it really matter how or what fee are allocated on a OTD price?
Apr 03, 2010 (8:09 am)
When the new body TL with Tech Package came out in 05 my wife had to have one. At the time there were no dealer incentives. They were selling for MSRP. We have 3 dealers in the area. My offer was invoice, you keep the holdback and let us do the deal. The dealer close to me said no. Dealer 2 will do the deal on 2 cars he had with a $199 Doc fee. My wife was not fond of the colors so I went to dealer #3. They would do the deal on a color my wife liked better. Now, they know I am n the business. I asked what the Doc Fee was. they said $599. I said, "$599 is ridiculous". They said, "But it includes the etch. But since you are in the business, we will take out the etch and charge $399". My wife did not like the white color but the $199 doc fee got the deal.
#733 of 784 Re: Doc Fees [lrguy44]
Apr 03, 2010 (8:32 am)
service advisors, managers and techs, parts people all get all or most of their income from profits in their areas
Can't say I care for a service advisor's level of pay based on how much my repairs cost. My Mazda service advisor tried to talk me out of getting "goodwill" about a year ago when I had a ignition coil go bad. Said you had a warranty and it's up. I suppose he would get a bigger commission if I paid $200, rather than warranty work. I talked to the service manager and he didn't have any problem calling Mazda and having the cost covered under goodwill.
#734 of 784 Re: Doc Fee... [lrguy44]
Apr 03, 2010 (8:46 am)
Doc fees....one of my "pet peeves". I make one offer. It includes taxes, license, doc fees....everything. How the dealership divides my offer up is up to him/her. Depending on my mood, as much as anything else, when I make up my offer, I'll include anywhere from $50-$100 for a doc fee in that offer.
I understand that there's a cost involved to file my paperwork for me. $200? $300? $700? I don't buy that (literally).
If a dealership wants a huge doc fee, then there's something screwy in their business model if that's what it really costs. Further, subtract that fee and I'll file my own docs. Who says that the dealership is the only one who can do that to begin with? I can mail my title into the state the same way they can. I can go to the BMV to get a license the same way they do. I even offered to do that once several years ago. Dealership said they were the only ones who could do it. Says who?
We can call it what it is, though. At least some states put a cap on them. Those that don't, it's a profit center. 5 minutes of work and 50 cents in postage, that they charge hundreds of dollars for.
Don't get me wrong. I do understand that a dealership must make money to survive. And, I also understand that they probably can't survive if they're selling cars where their only profit is the holdback.
Just don't treat the customer like we're stupid. As Aaron Neville says...."Tell It Like It Is". If a dealership says "hey, we can't make enough money with your offer", I'll respect that. But, trying to convince me that $10 in labor for "window etching" really costs $250, or that it costs them $500 to process my paperwork, well that's just insults my better judgment. And, that also tells me they think I'm stupid.
Obviously, once you finish at the negotiation table, adding in a doc fee in the Finance Office is an easier "sell". But, if I balk at the extra fees on the back end of a deal, I'm labeled as a grinder. Not really very flattering, either.
I have every right to know what the exact amount of money is coming out of my pocket to buy a car. Disguising a profit dollar amount as something else, well....that's something that just feels a bit dishonest, at least to me.
#735 of 784 Compared to buying RE
Apr 03, 2010 (9:25 am)
It has been more up front & pleasurable to buy a $300,000 home than a $30,000 car.
Both sales people are commissioned, experienced, & eager, however the RE salesman is more knowledgable, professional, & caring. They also have to pass a state exam & invest in Continuing Education time & effort.
The car salesman doesn't reveal "fees" at the outset, but the RE professional informs up front what you can expect to pay & for what.
#736 of 784 Re: Compared to buying RE [euphonium]
Apr 03, 2010 (9:31 am)
Thanks for the negative generalization. By the way, in my state we are tested and licensed..
#737 of 784 Re: Doc Fees [jwilliams2]
Apr 03, 2010 (9:48 am)
>Lets move on
Feel free to move as you wish.
We had someone post earlier about an agency adding on an advertising fee which I read to be another addon profit item like the document fee.
#738 of 784 Re: Doc Fee... [graphicguy]
Apr 03, 2010 (10:10 am)
The wording in the ORC (Ohio Revised Code) makes it sound like the document fee is only applicable when there's a loan and papers thereon to be filled out by the agency. Strange how the stores twist that to justify a higher fee but it's not even the way of payment in my case. I just wrote a check on our local regional bank.
#739 of 784 Re: Compared to buying RE [euphonium]
Apr 03, 2010 (12:31 pm)
I did forget to ask - how long have you been selling eal estate?