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Apr 16, 2008 (12:53 pm)
"...In California, doc fees are capped at $55..."
In New York it's $45. Which means that anything over $40-60 is pure profit.
I get a kick out of people who say they got their car at $200 below invoice and then paid a $600 doc fee. I guess they never look at the bottom line.
#599 of 779 Florida and Georgia....
by kyfdx HOST
Apr 16, 2008 (12:59 pm)
... seem to be the worst...
$399-$699 is not unusual...
Apr 16, 2008 (1:13 pm)
Hmhh what other state out there has high doc fees then? Arizona maybe? I know Florida can be crazy.
Apr 16, 2008 (2:35 pm)
The Saturn dealer where I've bought my last two cars charges $489.95 for its fees. That's probably a bit on the high side for the state, but $200-400 probably isn't.
Fortunately, as someone who is entitled to a GM Supplier discount, it's capped at $75 for me.
#602 of 779 Re: help! [louiesmom]
Apr 16, 2008 (3:42 pm)
> I noticed a hefty $795 acquisition fee and a $199 doc fee.
Read the lease contract carefully. The leasing company is going to want even more money when you turn in the car at the end of the lease: a disposal fee, milage fee, wear and tear fee...plus whatever else they can think of.
As far as negotiating the fees, it's easier to simply insist on another $1000 off the purchase price to offset the fees.
#603 of 779 I appreciate knowing the DOC fees in advance
Apr 16, 2008 (3:44 pm)
It stops me from buying from them immediately.
DOC fees are like paying an Usher to find your seat at the opera.
#604 of 779 Re: help! [british_rover]
Apr 18, 2008 (8:42 am)
Acquisition fees are normal but I know with like Chrysler the fee is $75 only on a lease. If you are purchasing a vehicle there should be no fee for acquiring the loan unless you have real bad credit. the doc fees are bull most of the time that fee is sheer profit for the finance manager. Make sure that you dont have any credit issues and find out what the turn in fee is 75 dollars again should be average and as far as damage and mileage no more than five dings per panel and the have to be smaller than a credit card in size, keep under the agreed upon miles or if you find yourself needing more miles pay a little extra on the note ( call the leasing company to add miles they are cheaper that way ).
#605 of 779 The notorious "DOC FEE"
Apr 21, 2008 (3:23 am)
I was told by an F&I guy and an Internet Salesman from two different Ohio dealerships that the State of Ohio requires a $250.00 "DOC FEE". This is untrue and so I have elected not to do business with them because either they (a) lied or; (b) are misinformed and, therefore, incompetent. The F&I guy said "sorry for the confusion". CONFUSION???????????? There was no CONFUSION. He minimized his lie or his own incompetence! An F&I guy, more than anyone, should know better and should be held responsible for knowing better. Americans tend to be too tolerant, too lenient and too forgiving. NOT ME! Tolerance and leniency is a breeding ground for acceptance by enabling that type of behavior.
There is no such requirement or mandate in the State of Ohio nor; in any other state for that matter, that says a dealer must charge a "documentation fee". To some, the term "documentation fee" sounds "official" and may be somewhat intimidating. States like Ohio or California can and do regulate the maximum fee that a dealer can charge by imposing a ceiling. Unless it's a regulatory fee, in no way, does any state require or mandate a documentation fee; nor would they because it just doesn't make any sense. To wit...
"ORC Section 1317.07 Increases Document Service Fee to $250
On June 30, 2006, an amendment to section 1317.07 of the Revised Code, which governs retail installment contracts, took effect.
That section now provides that a seller entering into a retail installment contract can charge a fee of up to two hundred fifty dollars for preparation of documents related to the sale. Previously, the maximum fee that could be charged for document preparation was one hundred dollars.
As a result of the amendment, motor vehicle dealers selling motor vehicles to customers under retail installment contracts can charge the customer this two hundred fifty dollar document preparation fee in addition to other fees associated with the sale of the vehicle (taxes, registration fees, etc.). It is important to note that the dealership is not required to charge the document preparation fee.
The Department of Public Safety, Bureau of Motor Vehicles did not play any role in the adoption of the amendment to section 1317.07, and receives no portion of the document preparation fee. Instead, the fee is retained by the motor vehicle dealer."
The pertinent section of the Ohio Revised Code is...
"1317.07 Requirements of retail installment contract.
No retail installment contract authorized by section 1317.03 of the Revised Code that is executed in connection with any retail installment sale shall evidence any indebtedness in excess of the time balance fixed in the written instrument in compliance with section 1317.04 of the Revised Code, but it may evidence in addition any agreements of the parties for the payment of delinquent charges, as provided for in section 1317.06 of the Revised Code, taxes, and any lawful fee actually paid out, or to be paid out, by the retail seller to any public officer for filing, recording, or releasing any instrument securing the payment of the obligation owed on any retail installment contract. No retail seller, directly or indirectly, shall charge, contract for, or receive from any retail buyer, any further or other amount for examination, service, brokerage, commission, expense, fee, or other thing of value. A documentary service charge customarily and presently being paid on May 9, 1949, in a particular business and area may be charged if the charge does not exceed two hundred fifty dollars per sale.
No retail seller shall use multiple agreements with respect to a single item or related items purchased at the same time, with intent to obtain a higher charge than would otherwise be permitted by Chapter 1317. of the Revised Code or to avoid disclosure of an annual percentage rate, nor by use of such agreements make any charge greater than that which would be permitted by Chapter 1317. of the Revised Code had a single agreement been used.
Effective Date: 09-26-2003; 03-30-2006"
A documentation fee = ADP (additional dealer profit).
#606 of 779 Re: The notorious "DOC FEE" [delta737h]
Apr 21, 2008 (3:41 pm)
Well, John, you'll be buying outside Ohio because, as you've found, ALL the dealers are in cahoots on this.
Some dealers will "offset" it by "throwing in" accessories, etc., equate to or greater than the fee. All, however, will list the fee on the contract and the buyer has to pay tax on it.
It's sad, really. It was $30 until 1999, then it went to $50, then $100, and then the big jump to $250 in '06.
Guess which party controlled both the governorship and legislature from '99 through '06?
The tactic I'm going to utilize the next time I buy is simply to reply that their $250 doc fee is fine so long as they're willing to pay my $250 buyer fee. Doubt that will work though!
One last point: there is a legitimate question whether it's legal for them to charge this fee on ALL transactions. Note the statutory language that says it's applicable to retail installment sales. This law was originally set up for vendors who handled their own paper. A cash purchase clearly falls outside that scope. Further, it could be argued that a vehicle financed by any entity other than the selling store itself is not, in fact, a retail installment sale.
#607 of 779 Re: The notorious "DOC FEE" [cccompson]
Apr 21, 2008 (6:28 pm)
$250 in Ohio? Ha, You should what they try to get away with here in Florida, usually around $600 but I've heard some down in south Florida have seen $900. Now most will negotiate and knock the price down accordingly, but the purchase invoice still has it listed.