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Smart Shopper Documentation Fees
667 messages, Last post on Sep 18, 2009 at 3:24 PM
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First off, can't we agree to eliminate the sweeping generalizations and name calling? This serves no purpose, except perhaps boosting the posters ego. I can not think of any occupation that doesn't have its bad apples. And yes, some tactics are inexcusable. I would think the reason automobile dealers resort to various add on's like "Doc Fees", "Mop and Glow", and other such stuff is because buyers think they should pay actual dealer net cost plus a hundred bucks or so for their new $25k set of wheels. An infintesimal gross margin. Any more, and consumers think they are getting ripped off. How did it start? Don't know for sure, but its kind of like the chicken/egg question. Just like any business, they have to find a way to cover expenses to keep the doors open. If they price their merchandise realistically with no add on's, they are not able to compete with the merchants who do have the "after" or "up" charges. So we will have to live with it. But at least we can be civil. I enjoy reading this forum, with both the buyers and sellers input. But I really do think some folks get carried away, and I wonder why the car pro's keep coming back.
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Replying to: jwilliams2 (Jun 29, 2006 10:59 am) |
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Are doc fees negotiable? My local Infinity dealer says they charge these fees ($250) to cover the cost of the title of the car. This is in addition the motor vehicle fees (unspecified at this point). Can't I just go to the motor vehicle agency myself for the title and plates?
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Replying to: littlewonder (Nov 10, 2006 10:36 am) Short answer is yes. Long answer if you want them less be prepared to fight for it. Doc fees are almost pure profit. |
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Replying to: littlewonder (Nov 10, 2006 10:36 am) My view is simply to treat them as part of the price of the vehicle and negotiate accordingly. |
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I've got a question that might best be asked via a story. Let's say John Q. Grinder goes to a dealership and negotiates for over two hours on the purchase price of a new $22K Camcordima. This is his second trip to the dealer, having test driven the car two days prior. The sales guy has probably spent over 3 hours with this customer, and he really wants to make this sale. The negotiated price is $100 above dealer invoice, not including holdback and any possible bonus money. When it's time for Mr. Grinder to sign the Purchase Order, he notices a pre-printed $400 Doc Fee added to the negotiated purchase price. This fee, for whatever reasons, is much higher than he expected. When Mr Grinder insists this fee is too high, and threatens to walk out if the $400 Doc Fee is not reduced to a more "reasonable" $200, what happens? My guess is the typical dealer will eventually accomodate him (although I'm not convinced some dealers would stop him from walking), but where does that money come from? In other words, if an agreement is reached, is the sales guy probably losing some commission, or is the dealership eating this loss?  Edit: I intentionally asked this to present the Doc Fee negotiation as an "afterthought", after both sides had thought price negotiations had already concluded. With an adjacent state limiting its dealers to about $45 in Doc Fees, but several local dealers here in Arizona charging $388 or higher, I think this story might be a common scenario.
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Replying to: cotmc (Nov 10, 2006 4:45 pm) On the other hand if you are looking at a dealer and you notice their doc fee is very, very high(499-599-699-etc.) then keep in mind that the dealership is basicly stealing commissions from their salespeople. Most people that are somewhat informed are just going to work the doc fee into their OTD offer and so by having a very high doc fee the dealer gets added profit without having to give the salesperson his/her cut. |
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Replying to: cotmc (Nov 10, 2006 4:45 pm) Just before I started shopping for a Mustang in July, the limit on doc fees in Ohio (which are capped by law) was raised from $100 to $250. As we were concluding negotiations I sought to have the selling dealer install some "free" accessories at our agreed price to close the deal. Now, I knew that the dealer's cost for the accessories was less than $250 and the suggested retail was more than $250. The salesman didn't have any idea of the numbers and relied on those I supplied when he agreed to my terms. We NEVER discussed doc fees at all. The interesting thing, though, was what happened when I picked the car up. The store did not have the items in stock and had to order them. The salesman had verified my accessory numbers by then and he said, "Our cost on these things is less than $250, is there anything else you want? You've got about another $20.00." This conversation happened prior to my signing the papers where, for the first time, the $250 doc fee was presented. So, clearly, in this situation the store was treating the doc fee as the gravy that it plainly is. I should add - it is just about impossible to get doc fees waived or reduced in Ohio. My impression (and it is nothing more than that) is that there is an industry agreement (explicit or implicit) as ALL dealers here want the state maximum to be listed on sales agreements. |
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...I've always paid less than $100 for my doc fees. Usually in the 70-90 dollar range. I don't know if Wisconsin or North Dakota limit the costs of those or if it's just because I bought "nearly-new" cars. Either way, I just paid it since at that point it wasn't that big of a deal to me.
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Replying to: phinneas519 (Nov 11, 2006 8:28 am) So, in a mere seven years it increased by a factor of more than eight from $30.00 to $250.00. I don't suppose there's any connection whatsoever between campaign contributions and the Republican legislature that repeatedly boosted it and the Republican governor who repeatedly approved the increases (who here has line-item veto power).
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