Last post on Jan 07, 2003 at 5:34 AM
You are in the Pickups - Archived Discussions
What is this discussion about?
Ford Ranger, Toyota Tacoma, Jeep Liberty, Truck
Oct 11, 2002 (1:31 pm)
Yeah...bigger engine, more torque, no arguement there..Liberty needs it with all its weight.
Ground clearance: Alright, the numbers I quoted are the LLL, which is 13" for you and 15" for Tacoma. You said it was because of bigger tires...there is not 2" of diff. between 30s and 31s. 2002 Liberty is sitting lower, and 2003s are sitting even lower.
real towhooks: why don't you quit this stupid line. Your Liberty has towhooks as an OPTION. Same as me going to 4WheelParts and getting them.
Jeep blew it because they had all this potential, and they ended up with a mallrunner. Heavy with luxuries, dinky tires, can't put a decent lift on it. Now DC came out with 17" Chrome wheels for it. It's not a "mini-Rubicon". Grocery hooks, lipstick holders....pretty plastic-enclosed lights on the roof.
As for slamming a Dana-axles 4x4: (with IFS): it sounds good, but it's not all that great. Danas break. In fact, it was the Dana 44 that blew at Tellico, the only axle lost there. Toyota axles held, Dana gave up.
Oct 11, 2002 (1:34 pm)
There is actual use of pre-runners. Desert running, high-speed. I guess you didn't know that.
#105 of 401 **TBUNDY** is hopelessly confused...
Oct 11, 2002 (2:43 pm)
"jeep: 15.74 lb/ft per CC.
toyota: 15.45 lb/ft per CC.
it seems that you toyota guys have forgotten what is important in a 4x4- torque."
>>Are you really going to tell us that your extra 15 lb/ft of torque is an advantage when your Liberty weighs a whopping 585 lbs more than our Tacomas?
You're the first person I've known who's rated an engine using a torque/displacement ratio. The fact you're doing this, instead of using the universally standard torque/RPM ratio simply means you're grasping at straws. Remember your Ranger debate? How more torque at a LOWER RPM was the most important thing in the world? What happened to that argument?
The most important thing in a 4x4 is power, lightweight, articulation and big tires. The winning formula isn't simply having a torque advantage.
Come back and preach to us about your HP and torque advantage when your Liberty sheds 600lbs of Ken & Barbie foo-foo.
As a sidenote, let me tell you I think it's hilarious how you brag about one thing only to do a complete 180 degree "about-face" later. Need a few reminders?
1. You bragged about your Ranger's locker, found out it didn't have one, then said they suck because that's what the Tacoma has.
2. You bragged non-stop about how the Ranger had more torque at a lower RPM. Now you say that's a bogus comparison and use some lame torque/cc argument because the Tacoma's got you beat.
3. You bragged nonstop about your precious Alcoa rims that were light-weight and reduced unsprung weight. Then you bragged about your bigger, heavier axles, A-arms and diffs, completely contradicting yourself with your asinine "reduced unsprung weight" garbage. Who would care about having lighter rims to reduce unsprung weight on a 4x4 with live axles and big tires, LMFAO!
4. You griped non-stop about how Tacomas (supposedly) had a leaking problem but simply ignore your Liberty's TSB regarding interior leaks through a drain tube.
5. You bragged nonstop about how tough your Ranger was and how you would literally jump it. Then when you sold it on E-bay, your advertisement stated "the truck was never abused."
5. You're quick to call anybody around here stupid when they don't agree with you, while you're the only one here who forgot HIS OWN USERNAME AND PASSWORD and had to re-register.
Need me to go on, or have you had enough yet?
Oct 11, 2002 (2:55 pm)
do you actually off-road your liberty? I think that's the real question.
#107 of 401 speaking of......
Oct 11, 2002 (10:24 pm)
lmfao- pluto, you make a mockery of yourself daily here.
you were the one who said the taco outweighed the liberty....quickly, you recant your quote calling it "a huge joke". alrighty........
you were the one who claimed to have a 4" advantage over liberty rear diff......quickly learning you were misinformed- again........
you were the one who said DOHC was better than SOHC designed engines, only to learn that the jeep engine makes more power and torque and is more efficient- you quickly quieted down......
you were the one who claimed you had a lsd in your rear locked taco diff....only to learn you were wrong- again, quickly quieted down.......
a long time ago when i mis-stated (see, i admit my mistakes) that the ranger had tacoma beat in curb weight by some 400 lbs., you and your toyota comrades quickly jumped on me saying i was wrong and that the ranger was pretty much even in weight to the lighter tacoma (obviously if being lighter was better- which is your theory now-, you would've agreed that ranger was heavier, and therefore not as good a 4x4).
but now, you say that being lighter is the way to go. which is it? i know, whichever works in your favor, right?
again, i just pointed out to you that the 3.7 makes more torque per CC compared to your wimpy 3.4- and then you totally change the subject to say that it doesn't mean anything.....well, it means that your theory on the DOHC design was DEFINITELY not plagiarized.....no one but you would think up such BS.
only you quote a magazine article that is going on six years old where your precious tacoma tied a wrangler with an OPEN DIFFERENTIAL. now if that isn't pathetic, i don't know what is...
daily your fellow toyota comrades sit in here and read your nonsense and obviously do not support you in any way.....half the time quietly trying to explain to you how things really are....
my man, i won't call you s8u8i4, but you are the epitome of a trucker that knows nothing but what you think, and is totally blind to anything else or anyone's explanation of the truth.
'Need me to go on, or have you had enough yet?'
okay, ill go on....the reason im pointing out to you that the 3.7 makes more torque per CC is because of your claim that the DOHC design is better as a whole- iow, the engine. well, if that was true, where's the torque in the 3.4? after all, it is DOHC design, but the SOHC designed jeep 3.7 still has it beat in total lb/ft of torque per cubic centimeter. and it does all of that while being more fuel efficient. your theory just doesn't float my man.
also, it's finally good to see you are accepting some of the ranger's advantages over tacoma.
also, i never had alcoa rims; the FX4 levle II comes with them. i just said what someone else did, which their purpose is to reduce unsprung weight, plus they are FORGED which means they are a lot stronger than your TRD's cast.
'The most important thing in a 4x4 is power, lightweight, articulation and big tires. The winning formula isn't simply having a torque advantage.'
evidently you don't agree with your comrades like scorpio who brag up the toyota weakling 4-banger in tacoma. also, big tires aren't everything. it simply depends on where you're driving. for rock-crawling and mudding, taller tires will help. but for some trailing, smaller tires will actually be better. i can't believe you would make such a blanket statement like that one. im not surprised though, it's obvious that you think your 31's rule and they are the best simply cuz they look good. can you say inexperienced? also, torque is what pulls you up the hill or through the mud my main man. it will also pull out the torque low toyotas. peace bro.
#108 of 401 Here's my post #42 to reread, **TBUNDY**
Oct 12, 2002 (7:25 am)
**TBUNDY** I just don't see why anybody would want a Jeep Liberty. It's a cheap spin-off/imitation of the Kia Sportage with a few shiny accessories like 17" wheels. I guess they put those wheels on there because it attracts posers. Who would want a puny 3.7 liter V6 when the competition now has a huge 4.0 in comparison?? ESPECIALLY an inferior 90 degree V6 with a power-robbing counter rotating balance shaft. We all know a 90 degree V6 is just cost-cutting done by Jeep so they can make their small V6 on the same assembly line as their V8s. How stupid and cheap is that? Plus, Jeep's V6 is an ancient SOHC engine, not the much better DOHC design. Oh yeah, gotta love that Benz quality too. Like the drain tube leaking water into the interior. I mean, what is this, a brand new Jeep or an ancient rusted out VW Bug that leaks water? I got to hand it to Jeep, though. The Liberty is brand new and it already has 26 TSBs. That has to be a new record or something! Have you seen the rear pumpkin on that Liberty? It's, like, at least 4 inches smaller than a Tacoma's! The only reason why a Liberty has some ground clearance (which is pitifully low to begin with) is because there's no rear pumpkin in the way! And the rear door looks like it would dent if you looked at it funny. My Tacoma weighs 600lbs more than a Liberty because they used a TRUCK frame and real sheet metal! Take that Liberty on a trail, and it will twist up like a wound rubber band. So much for your Benz quality. Brand new Jeep and the fuel pump already went bad. What would have happened if you were stranded, LOL. See, buy a Tacoma and you'll never have to worry about it. We all know the Liberty isn't a REAL Jeep. That 73cjdude guy really busted your chops and told you like it is. New Jeeps suck, plain and simple. What you got is a Ken & Barbie Jeep with all the foo-foo. Drive over here and and I will challenge you - see if you can keep up with my trick TRD with its 31" tires and locker! Ha! You and your Liberty will eat my exhaust and go home ashamed! At least you will go back looking cool with your shiny 17" poser wheels, though LMAO!!! Looks like the all-knowing saddaddy and scorpio laid down the law on you, bud! Don't you ever learn? BTW, I like the grill on your jeep. It looks like a 1950s pipe heater! Let me know when you are ready to take on my super-trick TRD!
END OF POST #42
>>If you try real hard and concentrate, you'll find this was a joke because I'm totally imitating your nonsensical garbage. You need to lay off the medication and learn to develop a sense of humor so you can recognize a joke when it slaps you in the face.
#109 of 401 AND FOR THE 100TH TIME, YOUR INSIGNIFICANT EXTRA 15 LB/FT OF TORQUE IS USELESS WHEN YOUR LIBERTY WEIGHS 600 LBS MORE!!! DO YOU GET IT YET???
Oct 12, 2002 (7:35 am)
Try it again:
AND FOR THE 100TH TIME, YOUR INSIGNIFICANT EXTRA 15 LB/FT OF TORQUE IS USELESS WHEN YOUR LIBERTY WEIGHS 600 LBS MORE!!! DO YOU GET IT YET???
Repeat as necessary.
Oct 12, 2002 (8:28 am)
Yeah....you admit it now.....that was what? 6 month ago? Do you happen to remember why you tried to convince us it was 600 lbs heavier? "My Ranger is 600 lbs heavier because it is made of real steel, and not tin". Which still brings up the question of what was your Ranger made of (especially since it had overbuilt components so you could sleep better at night), but that's for later.
As for winning formula:
We brag about Taco RC because it is lightweight, at mere 3000 lbs, the 2.7L engine is more than enough for it. With a short wheelbase that truck spanks everyone with Xtracabs.
Now.....can you specifically name that "some trailing" that small tires are good for? Gee.....all those people spending their money on getting 35s, 37s and bigger.....when you could have 30s!
Oct 12, 2002 (12:03 pm)
"only you quote a magazine article that is going on six years old where your precious tacoma tied a wrangler with an OPEN DIFFERENTIAL. now if that isn't pathetic, i don't know what is..."
-actually it was just a year ago, the wrangler DID have a limited slip, and the taco beat the wrangler.