Last post on Oct 23, 2006 at 1:18 AM
You are in the Kia Sedona
What is this discussion about?
Jul 18, 2005 (1:51 pm)
Kia and its Sedona, not a good choice for me. I have a Kia Sedona LX 2003 that was purchased in April of 2003. The van is 26 months old and has 93,966 miles of which 60% are highway miles. I use the van for my business in sales and some light hauling of goods.
Like many people car shopping in todayís climate two key components came to mind, economics and quality. Point one was economics. Although the initial cost to purchase the Sedona was economical, as compared to other like choices and its $19,000 price tag, it has become an endless money pit to say the least and a huge headache. I think I could have purchased a Mercedes that would have cost more up front, but would cost less to drive over the long haul. Point two was quality. The quality seemed exist through Kiaís good advertising, good rating in crash tests and its 100,000 mile as advertised warranty. With all the issues I have incurred with the van and dealer troubles (all listed below) itís fair to say quality is not the top priority. The 100,000 mile warranty is a great selling point but thatís about it. If one does not read the fine print and abide by the strict guidelines, as to scheduled services, the warranty is null and void regarding those areas or parts. Don't be fooled by the bumper to bumper coverage because it does not exsist. Example, the timing belt must be changed at 60,000 miles, as told by the service man after the fact of having this problem, at Folger Kia in Charlotte, NC. If it is not changed then all related issues due to not changing the timing belt will not be covered by the warranty. Never was I informed by the dealer or Kia of such service prior to having this problem. I did have the van serviced at 61,000 for oil and tires and nothing was mentioned about the timing belt change at that point. In comparison to my Mitsubishi Montero Limited and a Chevy Silverado, I have never had any problems with warranty work, or non-work, from either of them. No questions asked "we'll fix it" and it will be covered. Both warranties were plain, simple and straight forward. Any question I had or work that needed to be done, concerning warranty work, was done without question and without cost to me.
One thing to keep in mind is regular service work. The cost of service work and other ďmandatoryĒ service work is outrageous. I guess they try to get the money out of you in the service fees instead of the purchase price. Iím not sure if itís just this area or if itís the dealers that the costs seem to be high. Just a regular oil change, lubrication and tire rotation is $46.00 with the Kia. My Mitsubishi Montero Limited, the same service is only $25.00. To date I have spent $2692 on work that should have fallen under the 100,000 mile warranty which was not covered by Kia. This excludes regular oil changes, tire rotations, lubrications and such. The $2692 comes only from work, that in my opinion, should have been covered by the warranty. These costs also exclude the $3600 estimate for a new catalytic converter and related parts that the dealer says needs to be replaced. I have refused to install thses parts. I will run the lemon until it expires (blows up, which should not take too long the way itís going).
Issues listed below:
1.Driver seat armrest loose, would not stay in the up position.Warranty covered. 23,541 miles.
2.Rear part of headliner came unglued. Warranty covered. 31,996 miles.
3.Defrost button did not work. Warranty covered. 31,996 miles.
4.Chiming sound when making right turns. Warranty did not cover. 75,211 miles.
5.Engine light on. Evaporation leak. Warranty did not cover. 75,211 miles.
6.Engine light on. Mass air flow sensor low input failure, replace. Warranty did not cover. Later found that part was not needed to fix problem. Also found this not to be the cause for the engine light being on. Timing belt was the issue. 80,067 miles. Warranty did not cover.
7.Vehicle cut off while driving, timing belt jumped off, starter seize, further damage may result in engine. Warranty did not cover. 82,477 miles.
8.Timing belt off again. Later found that part was not installed correctly. 82,477 miles.
9.Engine light on. Mass air flow sensor shorted. Warranty did not cover. 82,477 miles.
10.Began to idol really rough. Needs new catalytic converter and related parts, $3600 estimated. Warranty would not cover. 93,966 miles.
11.Accelerator cable replaced. Warranty covered. 93,966 miles.
12.Air condition will not turn on, have to play with switch for it to work.
13.Continuous clicking noise coming from front wheel. Dealers have not been able to figure what problem is coming from.
14.Lug nut left off during regular service. Replaced and charged for lug nut.
I have used two different dealers for the above mentioned service work. Folger Kia in Charlotte, NC and Paramount Kia in Mooresville, NC. Folger Kia was the dealer which installed the timing belt incorrectly and replaced the mass air flow sensor which did not need replacing. These problems were found by the service department at Paramount Kia and they are the ones which reinstalled the timing belt correctly and said the mass air flow sensor did not need to be replaced. Paramount has worked with me as much as possible.
When the timing belt jumped off (issue 7 above) Folger Kia did the initial work. Folger called me and stated that belt had come off and there might be further damage to the engine. But, before any more work was to be done I would have to pay for what they had done so far. Discussed by Folgerís attitude I had the van toad to Paramount Kia. Paramount did charge back the ďwrongĒ work done by Folger to Folger and left me to pay the balance for what Paramount had done to get the van running. Folger was the dealer where the van was purchased.
In summation the Sedona has cost me roughly an extra $104 per month just to drive the thing. This does not include the estimated $3600 for a new catalytic converter and related parts which would increase the monthly total to $242. If you include the $3600 and the $2692, total of $6292 for work done, or needed to be done to this 26 month old van, the total cost just to keep it running would come to 33% of the total cost paid to buy the Sedona in roughly two years time. All for work that should have been covered by the totally miss leading 100,000 mile warranty as it is currently advertised. These costs exclude fuel, oil changes, lubrication, tire rotations and any regular maintenance. I will not purchase another Kia nor will I offer any good remarks to anyone that would ask me about my Kia.
#799 of 1373 Re: transmission Replaced [kiatech]
Jul 18, 2005 (2:53 pm)
Factory-new transmission means factory-new; that is from the plant all new parts. Companies often do use remans, but not always. It is indeed at their discretion for any company to use remans and they usually do. I got lucky, my dealer got me a factory- new as opposed to a reman. It can and does happen. Obviously not with Kia however.
As for the term Lemon. Oh, I've done a lot of research on this. I actually got my money back on one deal. The term "lemon" has two meanings. In common parlance it would refer to ANY car that had complete transmission failure combined with several (no less ten) shop visits in 18 months. In the legal meaning the definition varies from state to state. In many states, repeated repairs adding up to a given amount of time off the road within the first year qualifies the car as a legal lemon. So there is hope for Kia owners. If they go to their respective state consumer protection divisions they can easily down load the specific information that applies to their situation.
As for Toyota Sienna I doubt there are as many issue as Kia Sedona or Chrysler Mini vans or Ford Freestar for that matter. In fairness to Kia it is relatively new to the US market and I welcome the competition. Toyota and Honda dealers can be quite arrogant. If the price is right and they stand by their warranty, Hey, more power to you. But, come on, when some has the tranny go south and ten repairs visit in eighteen months they have every right to use the term lemon.
#800 of 1373 Re: transmission Replaced [kiatech]
Jul 19, 2005 (4:38 am)
I need to point out that is possible to get a factory-new transmission replacement. My Grand Caravan got a Factory-new replacement not a reman. So there are manufacturers that do this. From what you say I gather Kia is not one of them. When you say "No biggy" when someone loses a transmission sounds dismissive. Consider for instance how long was the car off the road and all the inconvenience, not to mention loss of confidence. When this same individual then has to bring it in for repairs 10 more times in 18 months you should not jump on him for calling this obvious lemon a lemon. What does take for you to acknowledge a KIA lemon? And please Kiatech, speak for yourself, all car owners can't complain till the cows come home as you say. However I should point out that people with such major problems as failed transmissions and ten repair visits have a right to complain till the cows come home.
#802 of 1373 Re: Faulty Radio [kiatech]
by Claire@Edmunds HOST
Jul 19, 2005 (11:19 pm)
Kiatech, please email me.
Coupes & Convertibles | Vans & Minivans
#803 of 1373 Recent Dealer Service Visit
Jul 21, 2005 (10:37 pm)
Overall, satisfied. However, communication about status of our vehicle was lacking.
Items on my paperwork:
* Dealer ordered new seat cover for driver's seat, no questions asked. Our '02 EX has 53,000 miles and driver's seat cushion was beginning to crack. I was worried they wouldn't warranty this item, but looks like they will.
* Dealer ordered new alternator. Testing revealed subpar performance. Part on order. Thanks kiatech for your recommended approach re: mentioning lights dimming at idle.
* Wheel bearing recall. Very minor moisture detected; wheel bearings are on backorder but dealer tells me that driving the van is not a safety hazard at this point
* Brand new hood and repaired rear trunklid to address rusting around grille and chrome license plate surround. Especially happy with the new hood since this means the stone chips on the old hood are a thing of the past!
* Kia badge on rear decklid was installed. Dealer forgot to install it on 2 prior visits.
* New rear wiper arm cap was installed. Must have fallen off. 2nd time this has happened.
* Repaired 2 transmission leaks that dealer noticed while inspecting the wheel bearings. Leaks occurring at rear cover and output shaft seal, according to paperwork.
* Coolant flush. A little pricey at $100, but more thorough than a drain/fill.
.* Free oil change using accumulated points in dealer's reward points program.
* 4-wheel alignment for $54.95 using dealer's web coupon. Very good price for a 4-wheel alignment, especially considering it's a dealer.
* Cigarette lighter doesn't work. No charge to diagnose (had to ask nicely for $40 fee to be waived). Cell phone worked for 2 years in this outlet then abruptly quit working; dealer tells me the lighter outlet is not designed for this and we should use the other power point up front. Isn't the lighter a legitimate power point?
Overall, $154 for coolant flush, 4-wheel alignment, and oil & filter change isn't bad at all. Plus, all my warranty complaints are/were addressed, with the exception of the cigarette lighter. Thumbs-up to Kia for standing behind their product and structuring their warranty/reimbursement procedures in a way that makes it relatively easy for my dealer to get things fixed under warranty.
#804 of 1373 Re: Recent Dealer Service Visit [bluedevils]
Jul 22, 2005 (6:10 am)
"Thumbs-up to Kia for standing behind their product ". I have not seen such evidence in my encounters. All I hear is this isn't covered and this is what it will cost you. They do seem to cover the "small" stuff but when it comes to the major areas they run like wild rabbits.
#805 of 1373 Sker1's problems...
Jul 22, 2005 (6:34 am)
I have to defend Kia a bit on this one. I did not buy my Sedona thinking that routine maintenance was covered by the warranty and I don't believe Kia ever hinted that it was.
You keep referring to all these costs on a van that is only 26 months old. But it is 26 months old with almost 100,000 miles on it.
The average monthly miles driven is 1,300. You are averaging over 3,600 per month. If you use 1,300 miles per month as the average driven, then your van has the wear and use of a van that is 72 months old. I would think that $2692 in maintenance an repairs over 72 months and 93,000 miles is average. When you drive a vehicle 40,000 to 50,000 miles per year, your average monthly repair cost is going to be higher than most. So far you have spent about 2.8 cents per mile on maintenance, again that does not seem to be a bad number.
It is important to look at the fact that you did not have all of these costs in only 26 months but you incurred the costs in 93,000 miles.
#806 of 1373 Kiatech question...
Jul 22, 2005 (6:41 am)
When the transmission service is done, is the drain plug just removed and the fluid drained and refilled? I have had a truck where you needed to drop the pan and replace the filter inside as well. Is this done on the Sedona or is the fluid just drained through the drain plug?
What transmission fluid do you use? I don't have my manual with me but the type of fluid listed is not a spec that I have ever seen. It seems to me that it had a "P" in the name but I can't remember. Is the fluid special to the Kia or can you use regular transmission fluid?
#807 of 1373 Re: Sker1's problems... [arjay1]
Jul 22, 2005 (8:31 am)
Thanks for posting this. I wanted to reply to Sker1's "problems" also but didn't feel like taking the time to write up a very detailed response.