Last post on Dec 03, 2013 at 6:44 PM
You are in the Prices Paid - Buying & Leasing Experiences
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BMW 5 Series, Sedan, Wagon
#664 of 4112 AWD reluctance .....
Nov 19, 2003 (5:50 am)
I thing AWD is great in certain conditions. I've driven RWD cars most of my life and have seldom been in a situation where I said, Gee, AWA would make the difference between getting to my destination or not.
As a practical example, on Dec. 31, 1998, I left Northern Ohio in a fierce snow storm headed for South Carolina. Roads had heavy snow covering a layer of ice. I was driving my '97 RWD (2WD) Toyota 4Runner. I passed everything on the road. I honestly don't know how AWD or 4WD would have made much of a difference. There is no substitute for knowing how to drive.
Now, my real rub with AWD is the extra weight, and as you know, weight is the enemy of handling. Not to mention the additional upfront and maintenance costs.
But, we have chocolate, vanilla, and a zillion other flavors. To each their own. I'm not going to try to convince you to come over to my side. This is just one old guy's humble opinion. And, thanks for asking.
FULL DISCLOSURE: My wife drives a BMW X5. Yep, AWD.
Nov 19, 2003 (7:19 am)
"There is no substitute for knowing how to drive."
Amen to the above. There is a mentality out there that thinks driving in snow with AWD means "I can drive as I do on a dry summer day" Accordingly, there are lots of winter accidents involving SUVs.
Your post piqued my interest because I am a fan of Audi's committment to AWD. I am also disappointed in BMW's lack thereof. I drove an S4 wagon several days ago and absolutely loved it. It's a one-of-a-kind vehicle as is the RS6. Lofty prices though.
I have no issue with the added weight since it is low. Aside from stability in snow and rain, acceleration in hairpins, especially twisting upgrades is where AWD shines. Too bad it can't be an option on all vehicles, this way everyone could be happy. Would like to see it offered on E55 and M5.
Jack, thanks for the full disclosure. You are a man of integrity!
PS - apologies for straying off topic. It happens!
Nov 19, 2003 (9:53 am)
Thanks for your post. BMW is not headed where I'd like, but, they didn't ask me either. When I bought my 530, I was tempted by the 540, but the old weight thing was the deciding factor.
I've lamented on several occasions that I think BMW should offer either:
1) a 5 series with a 3.5 or 3.6 liter making around 260 - 280 HP. It would cure BangleFever for me. (A Honda Accord makes that on their v-6.)
2) a supercharge dor turbocharged 3.0 liter, or even the above wished for 3.5 or 3.6 liter. You can aftermarket supercharge the 3.0 for about $7 - $8k installed, adding about 90 HP. But, there goes the warranty. Seems like BMW could put a charge into these things for less money and offer a warranty. I'd take a 3.0 with supercharger over the 540/545 and have similar performance, but 200 to 250 lbs. less weight.
But, hey, if BMW lets me down, I'll certainly look at Audi.
Host, sorry for the off topic post, but, these concerns may stop me from having another BMW buying experience at any price.
Nov 19, 2003 (3:35 pm)
Here is a great place for 5-Series conversation that is not specifically about sharing prices paid and/or buying experiences: BMW 5-Series.
There are also several discussions on the subject of AWD, RWD, FWD etc. - the keyword search on the left side of the page will get you a wealth of information!
#668 of 4112 5-series prices are certainly negotiable
Nov 24, 2003 (7:31 am)
I posted this on another thread, but figured I'd put it in the right place before pat tells me to....
I'm currently at $1.8 K over invoice ($2.4 K under MSRP) on a 525 E60 with some typical options. Haven't tried very hard to negotiate yet, as I'm on the fence on the 5-series. Of course in the NY-NJ area you have a very large advantage over other areas of the country in that there's *lots* of BMW dealers around here to haggle with. Dealers say the E60 is selling (not sure how much to believe it, yet), but I've seen every indication that an experienced, educated buyer can get a very solid discount on MSRP.
BTW, with all respect to the folks at Edmunds with their TMV viewpoint on the 5 series, I think their current estimate is very high compared to what can be acheived with some data, a few phone calls and the self-confidence to negotiate. Had a BMW rep try to use TMV to set a relatively high price on the car. I laughed about the idea and he backed off in an instant -- he didn't give it a lot of credibility either. Edmunds might want to update their data sources on this one.
Nov 24, 2003 (8:58 am)
bentleyfam25 - you might want to use the "Contact Us" form (accessed through the Help link at the top of the page) to report your comments on TMV. That's the best way to have them seen by the folks who publish the TMV figures.
#670 of 4112 Prices, Patience
Nov 24, 2003 (9:43 am)
I was at BMW dealer over the weekend when the salesman I was dealing with offered the following information which was totally unsolicited on my part.
While walking past a well-stocked lot of new 5s, flanked by copious amounts of Z4s, the salesman shook his head in despair and said “Do you believe this?” Raising my eyebrows with curiosity he continued “These cars are disasters. BMW had better straighten themselves out and fire the man who designed them.”
I told him, wow, given your position, you appear to be incredibly candid about this. Aren’t they selling? “Do they look like they’re selling. Do you see anyone here looking to test drive them. Plus there are problems with them.” he said.
At this point I was anxious to pick his brains in some detail but he got paged. Since I was done with my business there (I will not disclose what this was in order to protect him.) I didn’t get the chance to hear his specifics.
Now, knowing very well the BS salespeople have up their sleeves to make a sale, he could have had an ulterior motive as I my interest there had nothing to do with the 5. However, given the fact that prices on E60 are already starting to crack, Z4s and 7s are being discounted fairly well, there wasn’t much customer traffic at the dealer on a beautiful sunny Saturday (the shoppers there were testing 3s, Zs and 7s), and I still haven’t seen a new 5 on the road (I’m talking about driving 60 miles a day on heavily traveled roads.) I tend to believe him.
It is understandable that many want a new bimmer, it’s still the best ride around, better than the much-worshiped E39. But if you are a price hawk, have patience, and wait for the definitive scoops on E60 bugs, you may be rewarded.
Nov 25, 2003 (9:18 pm)
That was a great post. Please do us all a favor and pick that salesman's brains.
Nov 25, 2003 (11:43 pm)
Was that "bmwseller" you were talking with?
Nov 26, 2003 (2:16 pm)
"Was that "bmwseller" you were talking with? "
LOL. That would be blasphemous for "bmwseller" or "bmwife".
I never figured out if they're the same person.