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Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences BMW 3-Series Prices Paid and Buying Experience
10325 messages, Last post on Dec 08, 2009 at 12:50 PM
You are in the Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum. Your Hosts are car_man & kyfdx
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Just a warning that not all BMW salesmen are above using the 'classic' car salesman tricks. I've owned 3 3-series over the last few years, all purchased from BMW of Dallas. When I had my car in for service the other day, I decided to stop to flirt with my salesperson - nice guy and, obviously, a good salesman. I discovered he'd retired by seeing a new person at his desk. Ok; I decided to talk to him - "not serious, but if you have something interesting let me know. My car has 56K so it's time to start thinking about a replacement. " He suggests a CPO car he has as a lease return...same year as mine - identically equipped - and even the same color. The difference - this identical car has 10,900 miles on it vs my 56K. Very interesting - the car has a sticker price in the window that is pretty reasonable. I call the salesman the next day to say I'm interested. We agree to meet the following day to appraise my car and dicker to a deal. Edmunds matches what the window sticker asks for the CPO car and gives a number for mine in "Good" condition about 9K less than the 'new' car. Given my payoff I can see a very quick and easy deal being made. A 48 month loan and away we go. Since my credit is very good, there are no worries there. Then the story gets sad. 1. When I arrive at the lot, I see the dealership has approximately a dozen newly arrived cars. I see my choice marked as "Hold" with my salesman's name -AND a tag in the windshield dropping the price 2K and touting the wonderful deal this makes the car. Excellent! Guess the manager said that that car has to go to make room for the new stock. Then my salesman tells me that a. "My car" has been sold to someone else. Odd that he'd sell it for $2k less when he knows I'm coming to buy it for 2K more, but OK...... b. He has, of course, other more expensive cars. However, when we look, the lowest milage car he has available has 19K miles on it. Hmmm, not so good. c. I ask him to appraise my car anyhow, since I'm here. d. While he's gone I'm left to sit. His desk has someone at it, so I'm placed at a different desk. OK. Bored, I pick up what I think is a BMW brochure. Nope, it's the CPO paperwork for the car that's sold; car fax, inspection, certificate and all the paperwork is unassigned. This car isn't sold When he returns, he delivers the bad news... my car is worth $2K less than Edmunds says. OK this happens, and if his "sold" car is down $2K and my trade is down 2K, it's a wash from the deal I was willing to do anyhow. So, I tell him I hope that the deal with the person who has bought 'my car' doesn't go through.... as that's the only car I'm interested in. I don't yell, I don't make accusations - I don't care as long as the final deal is reasonable. I give no indication that I'm aware he's lied - there's no advantage to doing so, is there? But hearing that I'm not interested in any other car, he looks panicky and tells me that "the other guy is getting his own financing, and it looks a little shaky". Right..... So suddenly, just out of the blue, he asks for my car loan information on my current car. I give him (foolishly, boys and girls) a payment slip with the loan details on it. He leaves. When he returns, he has a offer sheet - I glance at the numbers and walk out. Same year and model as my car, but only 10K miles? The lowest thing in the lot was 10,900, and it was the 'sold car'. He's taken my current payment information and set the proposed deal to reach the exact same payment number. Oddly enough, this loan is for 60 Months  when my numbers had shown an easy payoff in 48. Then I look to see what he's done. HE'S RAISED THE PRICE OF THE CAR ABOVE THE INITIAL PRICE BY $5,000. Sigh  in order to make the payment come out to my current payment, something had to give, and it was the price of the car! And remember, it's UP $7K from the price the dealer is now putting in the window. So let's review here: Car "sold" Car not "sold" A "your payments will stay the same" deal stretched to 60 months. A $5K to $7K JUMP from window sticker. An offer for a car that doesn't exist, judging from 10K versus 10.9K statement on the offer. We won't even mention the low-ball on the trade-in, as that can be subjective... I couldn't walk out fast enough. I didn't expect to be treated to these used car tactics at a BMW dealership. Guess my 4th one will come from a different dealer. I sure miss my old salesman at BMW of Dallas. |
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Replying to: pepperjack (May 11, 2007 10:16 am)  Your deal looks pretty good... $150 to save a 5 hour round trip seems like a fair deal to me..
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Replying to: lokki (May 11, 2007 10:58 am) 
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Replying to: kyfdx (May 11, 2007 11:11 am) I could deal with that. However, does this guy really think that BMW customers are so naive that he can get away with increasing the term of the loan and pitching the "your payments will stay the same" when he has to RAISE the price of the car to do it?????? You can see (I hope) why I still feel like my intelligence has been insulted. Oh - and the guy is still using his "Auto-Nation" email id..... guess that's the way you do business there...
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Replying to: lokki (May 11, 2007 11:20 am) Good luck. Regards, Donna |
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Replying to: lokki (May 11, 2007 10:58 am) 
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Replying to: kyfdx (May 11, 2007 11:10 am)
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Replying to: dougsilver (May 08, 2007 1:06 pm) Many BMW owners buy, of course. If they do, they have a lot less to discuss on these forums... The buying process is much simpler and has fewer variables. Pretty much the only effect is getting the lowerst price possible. Loan rates are easier to figure out. So you have a bit of selection problem. I think that general equitable apprasial of the lease vs buy calculation is that leasing in the long run is slightly more espensive than buying. Sometimes, buying is cheaper, but i don't think this is generally the case. On the other hand, leasing can be simpler because of a number of factors. You have a known (low) payment, don't cut into your savings and capital, and won't incur costs for repair outside of the warranty period. You also are insulated from trade-in shock of you want out of the car after a known period of time. I think that you have to look at these benefits and decide if it's worth it. Let's suppose you have a new $40K BMW and you negotiate down to 37.5K for it. Let's say you buy it with $6k down and your loan is at 7%. Your payments will be $571/mo. Over the two warranty-free 2 trailing years you could expect maintenence/repair on the car to run, say, $1500. That pushes your effective payment to $591/mo. For a 36 month lease there's $900 up-front costs ( maco, inception, etc). The money factor is .00167. There's 6% sales tax, and the lease payment ( 0 down ) is $567/mo. There's also the disposition fee ($375). So it's effectively $577/mo. If your car has been damaged at all ( dings, etc ) your end-of-lease fees could push your effective payment over $600/mo. It's worse if you have to replace tires just over wear near the end of the lease. So the main difference is you had to put 6K down. In the purchase scenario, you have a car. In the lease scenario, if you squirreled that potential downpayment away, you have $9000 after a 7% return. According to kbb, a 2001 330i around here in "good" shape ( not excellent ) goes for $13,810 private-party. But the numbers could go either way, depending. I think people like the idea of leasing, because they like the idea of being able to simply afford an eternally new BMW in the driveway, and they sometimes let this color their arguments on the topic. But i'm open to leasing my next car if the numbers work out well for me, i move out of illinois, etc.
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I am having such a difficult time deciding which term is better. You can't tell by the monthly payment alone which makes mores sense. It's only a savings of 14 dollars a month to choose 36. My first leased 2005 BMW 325i was a 2 year lease and it just zoomed by. I have leased cars since 92, and always by year 2 I was ready for a new car.. not so with the BMW. I really hated having to be the market again so soon -- but then things worked out beautifully because I am now in an 07 loaded for roughly 10 dollars more a month..here is the kicker, and another reason why I can't decide to go 36 or 24. the pros for the 36 month lease are I have a great money factor, who knows if that can be repeated in the future. the pros of the 24 month term is I will be in a new car sooner, and just as I thought the bmw could not get any better in 05, the improvements are quite a bit. leather instead of leatherette, bmw assist, 4 years,park assist, and real time traffic info w/ navigation,230 hp as opposed to 184, apple usb hook up and comfort access. new features my 05 did not have..will I be saying the same in 09..I know Dodge is coming out with satelitte tv for their cars, like jet blue moniters..just when you think they have thought of it all, something new and improved comes along. Plus I will proably try and sell my car privately at the end of lease..and selling it may be easier with 2 years of remaining warranty left, lower mileage, and not competing with all the 3 years leases that BMW has returned and that they CPO and sub vent the program in some way, like lower interest rates, 2 payments free etc..plus just generally less competation in selling a 2 year old car vs. a 3 year old car. I had a GREAT experience selling my 05,(keep in mind the end of 05 was dealer cash, so I had a discount from MSRP of about 4820) (the new 07 has a discount of only 2650 from MSRP) I sold for 2k less than I paid for it in 05..of course that is amazing, and who's to say if history will repeat itself 2 years from now.. that whole thing is like trying to catch lightening in a bottle..but I am just wondering when you choose the term of your lease what influences your decision? Thanks for reading this far, and any input you would offer would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Donna
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Replying to: donnabgood1 (May 12, 2007 12:36 pm) Also... you are amortizing your upfront costs over 36 months vs. 24 months.. If you add up the total cost of the lease and divide by the term, it will tilt more in favor of 36 months.. Plus, with a BMW, you'll still be under the warranty and maintenance plan for the whole term.. And, you'll have an extra year until you have to start thinking about the whole thing again. regards, kyfdx
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