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Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences BMW 3-Series Prices Paid and Buying Experience
9231 messages, Last post on Oct 05, 2008 at 6:30 PM
You are in the Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum. Your Hosts are car_man & kyfdx
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After searching many dealers in FL, I found one in Orlando willing to work with me: 36 months/12K a year Lease 07 328i Sedan – Black on Black Automatic Premium Package Sports Package Comfort Access Navigation System Xenon Park Distance MSRP: 43050.00/w 90 BMW mats Bank Fee: 625 Residual: 60% MF: .00014 (marked up a bit but fair) Sale Price: 41,465.00 Monthly Payment + 7.00% tax = 569.52 License & Registration: $339.75 Documentation Fee: $45.00 First Payment: $569.52 Security Deposit: $0.00 Drive Off: $957.75 |
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Replying to: kyfdx (Apr 19, 2007 2:16 pm) New MSD Inspired Idea: Have you heard of someone offering a dealer money down, instead of an MSD, to reduce the MF? For example, imagine an Adjusted Cap Cost of $36,000 for a 36 mo. lease with a 0.0014 MF and 63% residual. Excluding sales tax throughout this example, the mo. payment would be $434.80, and the security deposit would be $450.00. Traditional MSD concept: Traditionally, if the dealer allowed 7 additional MSDs  $450.00 each, with each reducing the MF by 0.00007, an additional $3150.00 security deposit ($3600.00 total security deposited) would yield a 0.00091 MF (0.0014 - 7 * 0.00007), and monthly payments of $405.72. Down Payment Variaton #1: What if, alternatively, a dealer was offered the same $3150.00 as a down payment in exchange for the same 0.00091 MF? In this scenario the monthly payments would be $315.35 - which, over 36 mo., is $3253.32 less than 36 payments of $405.72. Down Payment Variation #2: An additional consideration is that, inasmuch as the mo. payments are lower, the initial security deposit would only be $350, as opposed to $450 - and the total of the down payment & security deposit would be $3500, instead of $3600. If you increase the down payment by $100 to $3250, and use a $350 security deposit, the result is a $312.48 mo. payment, which, over 36 mo., is $3356.64 less than 36 payments of $405.72. Would a dealer consider accepting this deal? Would it be attractive to a dealer for the same reason MSDs are to consumers? Wouldn't the foregoing hypo actually be more attractive to a dealer, considering the amount offered as a down payment is a multiple of the $450.00 security deposit, as opposed to the $350.00 security deposit (e.g., it's 7 * $100 more than it would be in Variation #1, and 8 * $100 more in variation #2)? Is this a bad deal for the consumer? How should an offer like this be adjusted to be the equivalent of its MSD counterpart? Just some things I've been kicking around. That "spare time is FREE time" got me revved up again.
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Replying to: pepperjack (Apr 20, 2007 6:23 pm) You need to understand how leases work. Most people lease their BMWs from BMW Financial Services, with the dealer acting as agent. The money factor is determined by BMWFS. The dealer can mark it up by 1% (0.0004). The MSD program is a BMWFS program; they reduce the money factor if you put MSDs. If you put money down as cap cost reduction, these are not treated as MSDs by BMWFS and will not result in a lower MF. In general never put money down towards cap cost reduction. If the car gets totaled you lose your equity in the car (your down payment). The only exception is putting $100-$200 down to get your payment below a multiple of $50 to reduce the amount of the security deposits when doing MSD  . If you have a little bit more of free time, consider doing European Delivery and chopping another $100-$150 off you monthly lease payment. You will not pay the training fee, the MACO fee on ED cars ($500-$600 dollars). And do sign up for BMW Car Club of America. They have a member's rebate program which sends you a nice check ($500 for 3er, $1000 for 5er and $1500 for 7er) whenever you buy a new or CPO BMW ($500) as long as you have been a member for 1 year without any lapse in membership. You can own BMWs with a true cost of ownership which is shockingly low.
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I was wondering if anybody knows the MF and Residual for a 24 months and 36 month lease for 18k and 20k miles for the 328i sedan? I need to get one for more than the standard 15k. Also if would make sense and I would get better rates if I looked at doing a lease for odd months i.e. 27 or 39 months. I am not sure if the rates are regional at all, but I am located in FL.
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Replying to: david_fl (Apr 20, 2007 9:42 pm) So, if you need 3yr/54K lease, then reduce the 3yr/45K residual by $1350 to approximate the correct payment. At this time, I'm not aware of a non-standard term that is a better deal than 24mo. or 36 mo., but that does happen occasionally. In December, they had some great deals on 28 month leases on 525i and Z4. regards, kyfdx
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Replying to: vsaxena (Apr 20, 2007 9:09 pm) How goes it?
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Replying to: vsaxena (Apr 20, 2007 9:09 pm) Regarding the MSD vs Down Payment idea, I see your point, and I can see how my post looks like I don't understand the MSD concept. I might not! That's why I'm here, and appreciate all the help so much. Here's what I was trying to get at: Can I ever benefit from offering a large down payment? We agree, for one reason or another, that if you had a 36 mo. lease $1000.00/mo., w/ no $ down, that it would be bad to ask the dealer, "Would you mind if I just paid all $36,000 on day 1?" Your risk-of-loss argument may be one reason, and another reason is that instead of your money earning interest for you, it's earning interest for the dealer. So another way to look at what I'm asking is: since down payments benefit the dealer, can I use that fact as a bargaining chip somewhere? BMW dealers don't have to offer MSDs, and some don't. But they all accept down payments! So I'm looking for a back-door (front-door?) approach whereby I can get MSD type benefits from a BMW dealer who doesn't offer MSDs. [Note: The following is not BMW specific - it's related to general lease questions I have after reading vsaxena's foregoing post] Also, thank you for your tip about "equity". I was under the impression that, down payment or otherwise, I would never have "equity" in a leased car. I had only thought that I had equity in the lease agreement itself, since I own it, but not the leased property, which I don't (I only own the use of it). Thx! (Actually, I'm still not 100% clear on this! Is there a website or Forum post that explains this more? And wouldn't gap coverage solve this problem if the car got totaled?) New question though: if a leased car gets totaled, how is the risk of loss of a down payment different from the risk of loss of MSDs? Down payments & MSDs are both paid up front, right? And, one way or another, you don't get the amount of either one back if you total the car, right? So, in the end, what's the difference? (Again, I'm thinking gap coverage helps here - and that there's a big difference between "equity" and "equity value"...)
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| I am considering getting a 2007 328i. I just found that the car no longer has a coolant temp gauge and also eliminated the oil dipstick. I am concerned about how reliably the engine oil and temperature can be monitored. The MB C-class once got rid of the temp gauge but later put it back. Can anyone address this issue? Thank you! | |
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Replying to: pepperjack (Apr 21, 2007 8:00 am) Unless you are credit-challenged, the dealer doesn't care if you make a down-payment or not.. If you are buying the car, the dealer gets the full selling price upfront.. either from you, if you are paying cash, or from the bank you are borrowing the money from. If you are leasing, it works the same way.. You and the dealer negotiate a selling price. Then, the leasing company buys the car from the dealer for that amount, and then rents it to you. If the selling price is $40K, the dealer gets the entire amount upfront, whether you make a down-payment or not. If you put $4000 down on the lease, the dealer keeps that, and the leasing company (bank, BMWFS, etc.) pays them the other $36K. So... a down-payment on a lease only serves to pay part of the obligation upfront, reducing the payments by the same amount. True, the down-payment money will reduce the finance charges slightly, but not enough to make much difference. Generally, the leasing company will not reduce the money factor, just because you made a large down-payment. MSDs on the other hand... reduce the amount of finance charges on the entire lease. But, they are a financial agreement between you and the leasing company. They don't affect the dealer at all. As far as what happens to MSDs if the leased car gets totaled? Common sense would lead one to believe that you'll get those back. Unfortunately, we've had no one post a real-world experience regarding that issue. Hope this helps, kyfdx |
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Replying to: kyfdx (Apr 21, 2007 11:51 am) just curious.. I have followed your advice and others here and am doing the max MSD..I am happy for that little known secret..it reduced my monthly pymt by roughly 40 dollars a month for a 3150 outlay. great return on the money. I'm thrilled with the deal I got..but it does leave me wondering being as BMWFS is the ONLY bank that offers this incentive (reduction of MF) with the security deposits -- what do you think is in it for them? What's their incentive, other than maybe the psychology of the hope you will take better care of the car keeping in mind you (the driver/registered owner) want that security dep. back hassle free.. kind of like renting an apartment when they ask for a security dep.. but could that be the only reason BMW does it, and if so why not others I wonder..just curious what you and others think.. Curious, Donna |
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