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Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences BMW 3-Series Prices Paid and Buying Experience
10325 messages, Last post on Dec 08, 2009 at 12:50 PM
You are in the Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum. Your Hosts are car_man & kyfdx
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Replying to: pepperjack (Apr 18, 2007 5:32 pm) http://fs.bmwusa.com/BMWFSPulp/VEHLEA_PaymentOptions.htm Also 500 over invoice is realistic, I got and other on this forum has as well, although I am in an area that BMW's are in avg car and plenty of dealers around. Also use the invoice numbers from cars.com they have the latest numbers that account for the march increase. |
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Replying to: kyfdx (Apr 18, 2007 7:36 pm)
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Replying to: tayl0rd (Apr 19, 2007 5:15 am) New York restricts the amount of security deposit to $750. Other than that, I've heard of no state where they aren't available. When a dealer doesn't want to do MSDs, it usually means one of three things: 1) They aren't familiar with the program 2) They are worried about it complicating their deal, and taking the customer's eye off the ball. Sometimes, when it comes to writing a big check, even if it is ultimately beneficial, customers start to get cold feet. 3) They are marking up the money factor, and don't want to get into reducing it by MSDs, as that will make it evident that they are profiting from the mark up. (this is probably the most common reason). If you want to do MSDs on a lease (and you don't live in NY), then just insist on it. regards, kyfdx |
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Replying to: pepperjack (Apr 18, 2007 5:32 pm) Here is a status update in regard to your comments: Disposition Fee: Thank you kyfdx. Originally I thought to include it up front, as I did, to get a sense of how much I would really be paying overall. However, if I made an offer that included the $350 up front, if I was not careful, I could have ended up paying the disposition fee twice. That would have really irritated me. Now I realize this is one more thing I need to be careful about. Base Cap Cost Offer: $500 over invoice is designed as an aggressive first offer. I expect it will be rejected. I will take this one step at a time, though under no circumstance - based on the purchasing experiences I have read - would I pay more than $1000 over invoice. Tax Deduction: I do not own my own business. I had heard that commuting costs are not deductible (as they are factored in to job acceptance decisions). However, I travel approximately 400+ miles a month for work aside from commuting (based on a sample of a 3.6 month period from 2 JAN 07, when I started work, to 18 APR 07). Accordingly, I would still be allowed a deduction of up to 40% of my lease payments (before sales tax) - correct, kyfdx? Alarm: I had read other people's complaints (I think on a Yahoo blog) regarding the lack of an alarm. It's reassuring to know it is not really an issue. (Also, just FYI, I checked with my auto insurer who indicated the addition of an alarm would only reduce my insurance by $10 a year. This also weighs in on the side of an alarm not being an issue.) Exterior, Interior, Transmission: The metallic paint and leather are not important to me. The transmission, however, may be. My gut is undecided so far - and if it stays that way, I will go with NO STEPTRONIC. However, the dealer I spoke with indicated it may take as long as 90 days to acquire a 328i w/o steptronic. That gives rise to three new considerations for me: (1) whether I feel like waiting that long; (2) whether I should consider ED - since I understand allowing 90 days for that entire process is a good standard, and that the cost savings are substantial; and (3) I need to start talking to other dealers. MSDs: Apparently, these are dealer specific. Thank you wrobbins8047 for the link to FS.BMWUSA, which provides: "The Multiple Lease Security Deposits: This option saves you money. You reduce your monthly lease payments, and you get the deposits back at the end of your lease. You can make up to 5 additional refundable security deposits. This option is not available with PrePay. MSDs are ltd by law in the state of NY. Ask your BMW center for more details." After reading that, I started snooping around to find out how much each of of the 5 allowed MSDs would reduced the MF. One source said that it was by .00005, and another said it was by .00007; so I called Vehicle Services  1-800-578-5000, who indicated it is entirely up to the dealer. This gave rise to 2 considerations: (1) I would be very happy to put up to $2500 towards MSDs to reduce the MF from 0.0014 to 0.00115; and (2) I need to start talking to other dealers. Cars.Com: I checked this website b/c wrobbins8047 indicated it incorporates March 2007 price increases. It shows that the base invoice price increased by $180, and is now $29,990; the invoice price of the options I want have not changed. See Cars.Com. Kelly Blue Book, which indicates its prices are current for March 2007, matches Edmunds. See KBB. I have not decided how this info will affect the adjusted cap cost ceiling I want to set. My first inclination is to make my initial offer of $500 over invoice by using the higher invoice listed on Cars.Com, but to retain the $1000 over invoice ceiling by using the lower invoice found on Edmunds and KBB. My second inclination is to do the exact same thing, but vice versa (e.g., offer $500 over the lower invoice data, but base my $1000 over invoice limit on the higher invoice data). In any event, a new question I have is: are Power Seats included in the Sports Package? I thought they were. BMWUSA.com and Edmunds indicates they are. However, they are listed as separate options on Cars.Com and KBB. Time is Money?: It recently occurred to me that I have probably spent 20 to 40 hours - maybe more - researching all of this in the hopes of saving a few thousand dollars. At some point, my direct savings in purchase price will balance evenly with the value of my time spent trying to save. I do not like to think about this too much!! Thanks again to everyone for your continuing assistance and feedback. Very truly, PJ
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Replying to: pepperjack (Apr 19, 2007 9:33 am) That's one caveat with KBB and Edmunds. They show a la carte options when they are part of packages; however, Edmunds does show the packages, too. In any case, I do believe power seats are standard on all BMWs nowadays. The definitive source will be the BMW website and your dealer. |
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Replying to: pepperjack (Apr 19, 2007 9:33 am) 2) MSDs: Last we heard.. 7 MSDs, with each dropping the MF by .00007 for a total of .00049.. The amount of each MSD is your payment, rounded up to the next $50 increment. 3) Power seats: Don't know about the new model, but in the old model 3-series, they aren't included with the Sport package... If you also get the Premium package, the seats are power... otherwise, they are manual. 4) Time is money? Spare time is FREE.. take all the time you want or need.
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After searching many dealers in FL, I found one in Orlando willing to work with me: 36 months/12K a year Lease 07 328i Sedan – Black on Black Automatic Premium Package Sports Package Comfort Access Navigation System Xenon Park Distance MSRP: 43050.00/w 90 BMW mats Bank Fee: 625 Residual: 60% MF: .00014 (marked up a bit but fair) Sale Price: 41,465.00 Monthly Payment + 7.00% tax = 569.52 License & Registration: $339.75 Documentation Fee: $45.00 First Payment: $569.52 Security Deposit: $0.00 Drive Off: $957.75 |
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Replying to: kyfdx (Apr 19, 2007 1:16 pm) New MSD Inspired Idea: Have you heard of someone offering a dealer money down, instead of an MSD, to reduce the MF? For example, imagine an Adjusted Cap Cost of $36,000 for a 36 mo. lease with a 0.0014 MF and 63% residual. Excluding sales tax throughout this example, the mo. payment would be $434.80, and the security deposit would be $450.00. Traditional MSD concept: Traditionally, if the dealer allowed 7 additional MSDs $450.00 each, with each reducing the MF by 0.00007, an additional $3150.00 security deposit ($3600.00 total security deposited) would yield a 0.00091 MF (0.0014 - 7 * 0.00007), and monthly payments of $405.72. Down Payment Variaton #1: What if, alternatively, a dealer was offered the same $3150.00 as a down payment in exchange for the same 0.00091 MF? In this scenario the monthly payments would be $315.35 - which, over 36 mo., is $3253.32 less than 36 payments of $405.72. Down Payment Variation #2: An additional consideration is that, inasmuch as the mo. payments are lower, the initial security deposit would only be $350, as opposed to $450 - and the total of the down payment & security deposit would be $3500, instead of $3600. If you increase the down payment by $100 to $3250, and use a $350 security deposit, the result is a $312.48 mo. payment, which, over 36 mo., is $3356.64 less than 36 payments of $405.72. Would a dealer consider accepting this deal? Would it be attractive to a dealer for the same reason MSDs are to consumers? Wouldn't the foregoing hypo actually be more attractive to a dealer, considering the amount offered as a down payment is a multiple of the $450.00 security deposit, as opposed to the $350.00 security deposit (e.g., it's 7 * $100 more than it would be in Variation #1, and 8 * $100 more in variation #2)? Is this a bad deal for the consumer? How should an offer like this be adjusted to be the equivalent of its MSD counterpart? Just some things I've been kicking around. That "spare time is FREE time" got me revved up again.
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Replying to: pepperjack (Apr 20, 2007 5:23 pm) You need to understand how leases work. Most people lease their BMWs from BMW Financial Services, with the dealer acting as agent. The money factor is determined by BMWFS. The dealer can mark it up by 1% (0.0004). The MSD program is a BMWFS program; they reduce the money factor if you put MSDs. If you put money down as cap cost reduction, these are not treated as MSDs by BMWFS and will not result in a lower MF. In general never put money down towards cap cost reduction. If the car gets totaled you lose your equity in the car (your down payment). The only exception is putting $100-$200 down to get your payment below a multiple of $50 to reduce the amount of the security deposits when doing MSD  . If you have a little bit more of free time, consider doing European Delivery and chopping another $100-$150 off you monthly lease payment. You will not pay the training fee, the MACO fee on ED cars ($500-$600 dollars). And do sign up for BMW Car Club of America. They have a member's rebate program which sends you a nice check ($500 for 3er, $1000 for 5er and $1500 for 7er) whenever you buy a new or CPO BMW ($500) as long as you have been a member for 1 year without any lapse in membership. You can own BMWs with a true cost of ownership which is shockingly low.
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I was wondering if anybody knows the MF and Residual for a 24 months and 36 month lease for 18k and 20k miles for the 328i sedan? I need to get one for more than the standard 15k. Also if would make sense and I would get better rates if I looked at doing a lease for odd months i.e. 27 or 39 months. I am not sure if the rates are regional at all, but I am located in FL.
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