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BMW 3-Series Prices Paid and Buying Experience

11920 messages,  Last post on May 21, 2013 at 5:56 PM

You are in the Prices Paid - Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum.

What is this discussion about? BMW 3 Series, Sedan, Wagon

Messages Page 416 of 1192

#4151 of 11920 Re: Numbers aren't numbers? [virtualbmw] by blueguydotcom

Jun 09, 2005 (10:47 am)

Replying to: virtualbmw (Jun 09, 2005 10:18 am)
The car is worth what it's worth ..........
that's it.
 
Well that's a total contradiction with the experience of many people and of course with many written reports. I believe it was Edmunds that had a guy go undercover as a salesman for months. He reported that dealers often play games and will bump up or lower trade-in values based on the negotiating on the payments, down payment and price of the new car. The 4 square is the great shell game for befuddling buyers...
 
You say you guys don't massage trade-in values but how can anyone believe that? Do you sit people down and show them a kbb or black book breakdown? No. A guy goes out, takes the car for a spin and then comes back and says "we'll pay you X for the car." it's a number pulled partially from values and also from what the dealer thinks people will accept. So the average 3 year old 330i is trading for 25k, but you sense this guy is just so in love with his 06 3 he won't notice if you guys say 24k. If he doesn't accept it, you can haggle a bit and then come to 24.6k. He feels satisfied and manly, you guys walk away with the possibilty of more profit on the used car. That's the game., Numbers are whatever you want to make them.
 
You villify the dealer for playing games and then you go in the dealer and play games? You just come off as a jerk and reduce your chances of getting maximum flexibility when negotiating.
 
I don't trade-in. You get ripped off. Thousands of dollars thrown away and even worse, thousands given to a dealership. I negotiate price. If it's a lease, then MF is the next step. If it's a loan, I have a loan before stepping into the place. I have my downpayment, ideally a credit card so i get FF miles and I know the current rates the dealer has.
  
It's not like these BMW's are distressed merchandise and we're begging for deals because we can't get rid of them.
 
They are distressed and you are begging for deals. The 330i had a 4200 incentive on it for months. The 2.9% financing seems to always be around. This isn't 1996 where people paid sticker on a bimmer. Those that still pay sticker on these cars are getting taken for a ride (this forum exists to help avoid that). The X3, Z4 and 5 aren't barn burners in the sales department. The x5's so long in the tooth it gets excited when it sees Cloris Leachman.
    
Be smart, be nice and you'll get great results
 
True, true. Always be pleasant, make jokes, and have a good time. But never, ever, forget they're there to rob you blind. And if you let your guard down you'll leave the dealership with a 10% loan, $2k trade in on an 03 bmw and an msrp priced car equipped with underocating, scotch guarding, lojack, an alarm and maybe an lcd mounted in the trunk "pimp my ride style".

#4152 of 11920 Re: Numbers aren't numbers? [blueguydotcom] by virtualbmw

Jun 09, 2005 (11:07 am)

Replying to: blueguydotcom (Jun 09, 2005 10:47 am)
Your ignorance is understandable.........
 
If the appraiser hits a car for 25 grand, it's based on the market value of the car, period. Nearly all dealers have someone appraising cars that has nothing to do with the negotiating. He just appraises the car. Now if the client is offered 24 grand and accepts it than they don't back the appraisal down a grand. They put the thousand into the profit of that deal. It's an under allowance and happens next to never.
 
The undercover guy had some neat insights but he never knew what the cars were worth or what type of deal he was working. He was a "green pea" working at some low-brow, high-volume, high-pressure dealer. Most BMW stores are not run that way.
 
The only 2.9 is on the X3 3.0 and the national days supply ratio indicates that the BMW's are turning very quickly. So, that's just not true at all to say that BMW's are distressed merchandise.
 
We don't use a 4 square but those #'s reflect a difference figure that is the bottom line. So, whether there is a discount or an over allowance on the trade value, it doesn't matter. It's all a difference or OTD price.

#4153 of 11920 Re: Numbers aren't numbers? [virtualbmw] by kirstie_h HOST

Jun 09, 2005 (11:45 am)

Replying to: virtualbmw (Jun 09, 2005 11:07 am)
Stop the personal comments and bickering now. We're talking ONLY about the 5-Series pricing & purchasing experience in here, not general BMW sales, or automotive sales. Further posts along this line will be removed without notice.
 
kirstie_h
Roving Host
Host, Future Vehicles & Smart Shopper discussions

#4154 of 11920 Re: Numbers aren't numbers? [virtualbmw] by hpowders

Jun 09, 2005 (12:10 pm)

Replying to: virtualbmw (Jun 09, 2005 10:18 am)
Hey watch it! I fit at least 7 of those categories and I resemble that remark!

#4155 of 11920 Re: Numbers aren't numbers? [kirstie_h] by hpowders

Jun 09, 2005 (12:15 pm)

Replying to: kirstie_h (Jun 09, 2005 11:45 am)
Please don't hit me but it's 3-series pricing & purchasing experiences.

#4156 of 11920 Re: Numbers aren't numbers? [hpowders] by kirstie_h HOST

Jun 09, 2005 (12:16 pm)

Replying to: hpowders (Jun 09, 2005 12:15 pm)

That's what I get. OK, 3-series... but it's not about each other!
 
kirstie_h
Roving Host
Host, Future Vehicles & Smart Shopper discussions

#4158 of 11920 Re: Numbers aren't numbers? [virtualbmw] by blueguydotcom

Jun 09, 2005 (2:20 pm)

Replying to: virtualbmw (Jun 09, 2005 11:07 am)
If the appraiser hits a car for 25 grand, it's based on the market value of the car, period. Nearly all dealers have someone appraising cars that has nothing to do with the negotiating.
 
And then the salesguy or manager goes and tells the buyer what the car is worth. usually a lower number.
 
The undercover guy had some neat insights but he never knew what the cars were worth or what type of deal he was working. He was a "green pea" working at some low-brow, high-volume, high-pressure dealer. Most BMW stores are not run that way.
 
They're all the same...and the guy had the same access to info as the rest of edmunds' staff. You're trying to say an edmunds writer doesn't know more about cars than most salesguys? I doubt you'll find anybody in here who would support that as 95% of us know more about cars than the guys on lots.
  
The only 2.9 is on the X3 3.0 and the national days supply ratio indicates that the BMW's are turning very quickly. So, that's just not true at all to say that BMW's are distressed merchandise.
 
Never wrote all. The X3, Z4, 5 and X5 are not lighting up sales right now. You're gonna deny the Z4 is a bust? That the X5 isn't old? That 5 doesn't have tremendous lease incentives?
  
We don't use a 4 square but those #'s reflect a difference figure that is the bottom line. So, whether there is a discount or an over allowance on the trade value, it doesn't matter. It's all a difference or OTD price.
 
Man, you go ahead and keep telling people their negotiated price and trade-in don't intersect. That's fine. We know how it works.

#4159 of 11920 Re: Numbers aren't numbers? [kirstie_h] by blueguydotcom

Jun 09, 2005 (2:23 pm)

Replying to: kirstie_h (Jun 09, 2005 12:16 pm)
My last post was not at him. I was careful not to insult him. Please don't nuke my posts.

#4160 of 11920 Re: Numbers aren't numbers? [blueguydotcom] by rroyce10

Jun 09, 2005 (3:10 pm)

Replying to: blueguydotcom (Jun 09, 2005 2:20 pm)
.......... Bud .. I think you really have a distorted view of the "real world" ... how much did you pay for the Rose colored glasses.? ..l.o.l...
 
                           Dealers base their appraisals on what they are doing at the auctions, not books ... they're not going to drop $15,000 into a vehicle that's doing $14,000 at the block and it stills needs $900 to to break daylight, no matter what "any" books say ... then they deduct the work, parts, any service, rubber and whatever it might take to get the vehicle to just "average" - plus the miles, plus any wonderful options in demand, minus a bad color ..... the "info" sources kinda leave that part out though ..l.o.l...
 
                          And speaking of leaving things out .. there is absolutely no advantage to leaving the trade out, that type of thinking went out after the Edsel, all it does is alienate both parties .. sooner or later that number is going to come up and it's better to get it on the table right away, then to spend 2 hours to make the deal, the have both parties walk away because someone wants $12,000 for a $9,500 vehicle ..... books don't cars, dealers buy cars ...
 
                                                                                      
 
                                                                                          Terry.

Messages Page 416 of 1192

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