Last post on May 23, 2013 at 3:50 PM
You are in the Prices Paid - Buying & Leasing Experiences
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Sedan, Wagon
#11552 of 11922 2012 BMW 3 Series - Availability in Bay Area
Feb 19, 2012 (11:35 pm)
Here is some information from a BMW salesperson in the Bay Area regarding the recently released 2012 BMW 3 series
- supply of the 335 is very low
- better deals available on the 328
- you have to custom order the specific car that you want (i.e., the cars are not available in inventory)
- if you custom order a car it will take 2 months to arrive
Any ideas on pricing?
#11553 of 11922 328i 2012 lease price
Feb 23, 2012 (12:18 pm)
I'm in the Bay Area and was quoted the following on a 2012 228i 36 mo/15K miles per yr lease.
I haven't seen the milage penalty charge before, can anyone verify is this is a decent deal? It appears high to me.
Milage penalty 1,800
Lease end value 25,600
Sell price 41,800 + gap insurance of 925 = total cap cost of $42,725
608.91 + 50.24 (tax) = 659.15 payment.
Sec deposit $2
tot initial fees $45
tot annual fees $369 (not sure what this is?)
Drive off $1,078.86
#11554 of 11922 Re: 328i 2012 lease price [Jenn]
Feb 23, 2012 (4:57 pm)
The residual looks right for 15k/year, I do have two questions
a) What is the MF you were quoted?
b) What is the invoice price of your car?
Not really a fan of gap insurance, but hey its a personal choice
#11555 of 11922 Re: 328i 2012 lease price [swamiv]
Feb 24, 2012 (9:32 am)
The invoice price is $41,230.00
They came back and told me they made a mistake on the lease payment (I'm not sure if they did or just gave me new numbers because I told them it was too high). MF was .00195,
15k miles is 608.82
12k miles is 584.11
I don't want to pay for gap insurance, can I opt out of that?
Thanks for your help!
#11556 of 11922 Re: 328i 2012 lease price [Jenn]
by kyfdx HOST
Feb 24, 2012 (10:39 am)
That fee isn't for GAP insurance... All BMWFS leases have GAP included (which is good).
That is the acquisition fee for BMWFS
#11557 of 11922 Re: 328i 2012 lease price [Jenn]
Feb 26, 2012 (9:03 pm)
The MONEY FACTOR of 0.00195 is too high. It means that the INTEREST RATE is 4.68% (INTEREST RATE = MONEY FACTOR multiplied by 2400). In an era of zero interest rates why is BMW charging 4.68%?
The variables that are used to calculate LEASE PAYMENT are
1. CAPITALIZED COST (i.e., the price that you negotiate, including fees such as gap insurance, in your case it is 42,725)
2. RESIDUAL (i.e., the price at the end of the lease, calculated by multiplying the negotiated price by the RESIDUAL PERCENT which BMW determines)
3. DOWN PAYMENT (i.e., any amount you pay to reduce the amount that you are "financing"... I am putting "financing" within quotation marks because you are not really financing a purchase and instead "renting for a period" such as 36 months)
4. MONEY FACTOR (i.e., the annual interest rate divided by 2400)
Here is a link that will help you calculate the LEASE PAYMENT
My recommendation is to negotiate a lower CAPITALIZED COST since they are unlikely to lower the other variables. One strategy you may want to use is to first ask to reduce the money factor saying that "with interest rates near zero why are you charging me 4.68%". Try to get an interest rate close to zero, such as 0.5 % (half a percent). Then try to get them to increase the RESIDUAL by saying that "BMWs hold their values well and so I feel that the residual should be at least 75%". Finally, ask for a lower CAPITALIZED COST. This is the variable that the dealer CAN reduce.
Your goal should be to pay less than $400 per month with ZERO down. Actually I would not pay more than $375 ... but that's because I negotiate hard and if I do not get what I want I walk away from the deal
#11558 of 11922 328xi Lease Questions (for car_man or others)
Feb 27, 2012 (2:58 pm)
car_man (or any others), do you have any idea what offer might replace the current 328xi 33 month lease deal? I am interested in the current offer but don't need the car for another 5 weeks so am not really in a hurry. I have a dealer offering what I think is a pretty good deal on the exact car I want, but I only want to pull the trigger if this deal is going away and won't be replaced. Does it even matter if there is a formal deal that BMW is offering? As far as I can tell the money factor and residuals are nothing special, and the selling price is dictated by market demand/negotiation, so the biggest thing that could disappear would be any BMW-subsidized cap cost reduction, right? What are the odds that deals on the 2011 328xi will get worse in March with the new 2012's continuing to roll in? Seems low, but I'm not an expert....
FWIW, this is the deal I have on the table:
MSRP: ~ $42.5k
Selling Price: ~35k
Additional cap cost reduction: $2.5k
I do not know the residual or money factor specifically but with this combination of other inputs and a $3k down payment the pretax monthly payment was $360 (this would imply a 50% residual with a .00195 money factor if my math is correct).
Is this a deal worth jumping on before the current offer expires? Is a better deal likely to replace it on March 1? Is the offer "deadline" meaningless and the dealer would be willing to make this same deal March 1 regardless of what special offers BMW is advertising?
Sorry for all the questions - I have never leased a car and never really paid attention to advertised deals so don't know how to proceed.
#11559 of 11922 Re: 328xi Lease Questions (for car_man or others) [thegeneral13]
Feb 27, 2012 (7:57 pm)
Since they have offered you a price ($360 per mo) here is what it means:
- you have an "anchor" for the price (i.e., you have some idea of the lease payment)
- the seller CAN go lower (this is obvious because that's how businesses and people operate ... for example when you set the price for something that you are willing to sell you will have a range in mind and you will start at the high end of the price and then keep negotiating till the price hits a "floor" below which you will not drop the price. You should try to find out the floor price for the car)
I ran the numbers using the calculator here http://www.carloancalculator.me/lease-calculator/
and it seems that you are basically financing about $9,500 (32500 - 3K downpayment - 20K residual) at 4.68%.. What this also means is that you are "renting" a car for 3 years and paying a price of $12.5K. This is an ok price if the interest rate were lower.
Let's look at this deal - you are prepared to drive an OLDER MODEL BMW for 3 more years. In other words this car, which is already an outdated model, will get more and more outdated every day right until you have to return it to the dealer. This car should not be worth 12.5K. I would pay, in today's current dollars, at most 10K to lease it.
My recommendation is to go for a lower monthly payment, which you can arrive at by negotiating one or more of the following
- lower cap cost
- lower money factor
- higher residual
If you let the deadline of Feb 29 slip and then come back at the end of March the seller is UNLIKELY to give you the same or better deal.
So, here is your best bet: late in the evening on Feb 29 you show up at the dealer PREPARED TO BUY IF YOU GET THE RIGHT PRICE. Then you ask for a monthly payment of $280 AFTER TAXES. In your mind you should have a "ceiling price" which would be the MAXIMUM that you would be willing to pay. Do not offer any more than the 3K downpayment. Then, if the car dealer does not give in to your ceiling price you should walk away and NEVER go back to that dealer.
I would recommend that you pay maximum of $300 per month including taxes.
Good luck and I hope you get the $300/month price.
#11560 of 11922 Re: 328xi Lease Questions (for car_man or others) [ssaikia]
Feb 28, 2012 (1:58 pm)
WOW.. I thought your earlier reply to Jenn was the worst post I had ever seen on this forum until this latest one somehow trumped it. Do you know anything about leasing at all? The advice you are giving is TERRIBLE and unrealistic. You either have no idea what you are talking about, or are trying to sabotage negotiations on purpose. $300 after tax for a brand new $42K BMW? Maybe with $7000 down. You are lucky to lease an altima for that price. Not to mention if you knew what you were talking about you would be telling people to negotiate a lease with ZERO down, to protect against losing a large down payment in the event of an accident.
Do you realize that money factors and residual values are set by the manufacturer and can not be negotiated lower than a base rate? Sure some dealers may mark up the money factor for extra profit, but you don't have a chance in hell at getting a dealer to reduce it below what is set by BMWFS just because you negotiate hard. You also can't choose your own residual based on what you think a BMW will be worth in 3 years.
Please stop littering this forum with advice that belongs on the trash heap. Even if your uncle owned a BMW dealership you would be laughed at asking for a 75% residual and .5% interest on a lease.
#11561 of 11922 Re: 328xi Lease Questions (for car_man or others) [thegeneral13]
Feb 28, 2012 (8:49 pm)
If the selling price is 35K, then it has the potential to be a great deal! as long as the dealer doesn’t slip in something here and there at closing. If I had read your post yesterday, I could have done much better… Here's the lease I just signed. my very first lease ever. I was not sure at the spot whether inception, residual, or disposition can be negotiated. Hope next time I can do better. Wife loves the car
2011 328xi prem+nav, 33-mon lease, 10k mi per year
MSRP: 42.2K, selling: 36.8K, residual 57%, money factor 0.00146 (equivalent to 3.5%).
1) Upfront payments $2794:
$353 first month
$875 lease inception
$349 doc fee (dealer makes $500 on inception and doc combine)
$901 tax (state tax on $353 x 33 + $875 + $349)
$316 title registration
2) Refundable security deposit $2800
This deposit buys down 7 x 7 = 49 points from the 0.00195 money factor, thus lower monthly payment. Note 2800 is slightly higher than 7% of the cap cost, and there seems to be more room to go, the financing guy may have made a couple of hundreds here, but I didn’t argue much.
3) And there's a $350 deposition fee, if I don't buy or lease from BMWFS at the end of the lease.
Many east coast dealers seem to have more than one hundred 2011 328xi in stock. Given the market and weather condition, also incentives directly from bmw, I believe it’s very realistic to knock 6K+ off msrp. It can get even better at the end of March, but selection may be less by then.