Last post on Apr 02, 2013 at 5:00 PM
You are in the BMW 3-Series
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, BMW 5 Series, Coupe, Convertible, Sedan, Wagon
Please share your Euro delivery experience here!
#315 of 1563 ED Part 2
Mar 03, 2003 (6:59 am)
Regarding negotiations with the dealer:
I got on the BMWUSA web site, obtained the name and phone number of the four closest dealers (all within 15 miles), that took 10 minutes, tops. I then called the first dealer, got a salesman on the phone and said, "Will you sell me a 530i via the BMW European Delivery Program for $1,500 over ED Invoice?"
His response was, "Hmmm, we don't usually do that kind of deal. Can I call you back in 10 minutes?"
"Yes, my phone number is..."
Eight minutes later, he called me back and asked me, "If I agree to this deal, are you ready to buy right now?"
"If you agree, I will be there in less than an hour to sign the paperwork and pay you a deposit."
The entire transaction was over in less than two hours from the time when I first looked up the list of the dealerships.
In my case, this is less of an issue as we were going to Europe anyway; however, using Expedia.com, it took me about 20 minutes to make the plane reservations R/T to Munich and the hotel reservations in Paris. As we were going in April, I didn't figure on having too much of a problem finding hotel rooms while we were touring, and I didn't.
I do not count this as a valid expense. Passports are good for 10 years, and can be renewed by mail. A new Passport costs $85 (regardless of whether it is a new issue or a renewal) to process. In addition, you need two "Passport Photographs" of yourself, so when I include my time to have the pictures taken, the time to print out the application (http://travel.state.gov/DS-0011.pdf), fill it out, lick the envelope, stamp it and mail it, we are still talking less than $200, which works out to $20 per year. Given that I used my Passport twice last year, the cost that can be allocated for my ED trip is $10.
IMHO, expenses for meals and such are not valid as one must eat anyway, that and you are fed two meals (dinner and breakfast over, and lunch and a snack on the way back) each way. In Europe many hotels include a breakfast or offer one for a very nominal charge (the Hotel Uhland is no exception). Basically that means that you need to provide for your own dinner Friday and Saturday nights and you Lunch on Saturday, everything else is covered. Once again, you will need to eat anyway, will it cost you more to eat in Munich than here in the States? Probably not by much, if at all.
We now live in the era of the ATM, I haven't "Exchanged Currency" since 1991. These days, you simply walk up to the nearest ATM, stick in your card, and out pops local currency, debited directly to your account, and with no "Exchange Fees" associated, you get the EXACT prevailing exchange rate.
Waiting around in airports:
Hmmm, nobody can "Bill" all of the time, we all need some "Down time". I use airport and airplane time as the time to catch up on reading the latest Tom Clancy or Nelson Demille. Maybe I'm just wierd, however I actually look foreward to this time just so that I can relax. Needless to say, in my mind, this is "No Charge".
Riez, you must understand, you and I sing from the same page of the BMW Hymnal on most things BMW. I know that I can count on you being my "Loyal Opposition" regarding the ED thing, as you can count upon me being the same for you. In the end, we are both right, it just depends upon what one's priorities are.
#316 of 1563 Reasons why a dealer will negotiate on ED...
Mar 03, 2003 (7:00 am)
According to my salesman: Not only do ED cars not come out of the dealership allocations, and not only do they count toward bonuses and commisions, they also count in the calculations for what the dealership gets allocated in future years.
It is certainly in a dealerships' best interest to sell as many ED cars as possible, even at a minimal profit.
Mar 03, 2003 (8:55 am)
ED can be a good deal, but you're skewing the numbers.
1. $5300 MSRP savings sounds awfully high. Assuming you make the same deal over invoice, you'd have to be getting a 7-series or something to make this work out. The savings is more like $2500 on a 3-series. Obviously, the more expensive the car, the bigger the potential savings.
2. You're not going to save sales tax unless you do some shenanigan with your DMV. You're going to get charged sales tax by your local dealer exactly as if you bought the car at the dealer.
3. You're forgetting the 2-3 months of carrying lease/car payments on a car you don't have. (30-days prior to delivery and 6-8 weeks getting the car home).
#318 of 1563 Markjenn
Mar 03, 2003 (11:35 am)
Fair enough, I wrote the above according to my memory, so, I just checked the numbers, and here is what I came up with.
My Price: $42,180.00 (ED Inv + $1,500)
Savings: $5,215.00 (I was high by $85)
Sales Tax: (I Leased my car in NJ, so 6% is the tax)
My Price $824.58
What I forgot to mention (and why the numbers that I backed into from above came out the way they did) is that last year when I got my car, there was a thing known as a "Luxury Tax" as well, which was 3% above $38,000.
2002 Luxury Tax:
My Price: $125.40
Sales Tax: $312.90
Lux Tax: $156.45
Total savings: $5,684.35 (For 2003, that savings would be $5,527.90)
In the end my number (once again, written from memory) was off by $15.65, not too bad for a year. That said, the same car bought this year for the same price would both cost a little less, and receive less savings, and for the same reason, the Luxury Tax went away as of 1-Jan-2003.
Regarding my negotiated deal; some dealerships will deal on cars in stock, some on cars on order, some on ED cars, and some on any or all of the above. Due to the reasons posted in #316, I was able to get a $1,500 over ED Invoice deal, I never asked about a car purchased from their allocation.
Regarding Sales Tax; I have lived in (and bought cars in) seven different states, and with the exception of New Hampshire (where I now live), which has no sales tax at all; the tax is calculated upon the negotiated price of the car, NOT on MSRP. So, the better the deal you get, the less tax you pay.
Regarding transit time; I picked my car up here in the States three weeks to the day after I dropped it off in Munich. Granted, that was in NJ, in CA we are talking an entirely different story.
Regarding lost payments; I did in fact include the extra up front payment required for the ED Program, which in my case was $558. I did not include the "Lost Time" while the car was in transit, which was three weeks, which works out to another $398.
I hope this clears up any confusion.
#319 of 1563 Not to be picky but ...
Mar 03, 2003 (2:25 pm)
you continue to compare $1500 over ED invoice to U.S. delivery MSRP. People who are willing to negotiate $1500 over ED invoice can just as easily negotiate $1500 over US delivery invoice. This reduces all your numbers about about half.
Second, my understanding is that ED cars must be paid for in full 30-days prior to delivery in Europe. And most folks report the car taking 6-8 weeks. This is certainly more than a single extra payment made while you have no car to show for it.
Just to anticpate your next post, you're going to say that ED cars don't come out of dealer's allocation so you can drive a better deal. While this may be true in some tight markets, I don't think it is true in most markets. Certainly, $1500 over invoice is very doable on a non-M 3-series or 5-series right now and you can do even better on some models of 5-series. Finally, you can always bargain more aggressively for a car on the lot. So deal-wise, I'd call it a wash.
We can split the numbers several ways but apples-to-apples, there are very few ED buyers who realize a total net savings of $5500 as you purport. On the average, it is more like $2000-$2500 from which you need to subtract any incremental travel costs.
Mar 03, 2003 (3:58 pm)
"Just to anticpate your next post, you're going to say that ED cars don't come out of dealer's allocation so you can drive a better deal. While this may be true in some tight markets, I don't think it is true in most markets."
Sorry, this is absolutely true in every US market. In my shopping experience, I found it easier to get the dealer to bend on the ED price then they were on the price of a car that came out of their allocation. In fact, the three dealerships that I have visited over the last several years had very little unsold inventory either inbound or on their lots, so why should they bargain? Another thing to consider is that while an ED car does not come out of the allocation, it DOES count toward future allocations, thus another incentive for a dealership to sell ED cars.
FWIW, I have stated that the savings on a vehicle like mine is about $5,500 (when compared with MSRP), on the Vehicle. I have also stated that IF you were not already planning a trip to Europe, and did a quickie three day trip, you would have to deduct a minimum of $1,500 for any savings on the car (including one extra finance payment), and depending upon where you live, as many as two more payments while the car is on the water.
Of course, the flip side of this is when an individual is already going to be there. In my case, my wife and I were going to be in Paris, and we were going to rent a car and tour around Europe a little. In this type of scenario, we actually found it to be cheaper to fly into Munich instead of Paris, where we picked up my car, and had a blast driving through Germany, Austria, Switzerland, France, Luxembourg and then back into Germany. Not only were the airline tickets a bit cheaper, but we had no rental car expenses at all. Based upon the way I am inclined to do my accounting, I got to add the cost of the car that I did not rent on top of the savings on the vehicle. So, I saved about $5,700 on the "Out The Door" price of the car, less 7 weeks of payments (1 month pre-payment, and 3 weeks in transit -- $558 + $398), plus the rental car savings ($300), giving me a total savings of $5,044. Not too bad.
Mar 03, 2003 (4:18 pm)
I am trying to find the site of the ed prices. i found on one site, the ed msrp, but not the invoice prices, which is where the real savings come in. please inform
#322 of 1563 KevinJS
Mar 03, 2003 (5:42 pm)
Please look at the PDF's over on http://www.eurobuyers.com
You will find the invoice prices down on page two of each of the price sheets.
Mar 03, 2003 (6:28 pm)
I have no issue with your computing a number based on MSRP. But it is meaningless as a guage of ED costs savings - you can't assume someone would drive a hard bargain on ED but walk in and pay full list for US delivery. People report here and elsewhere of doing $1500 over invoice on US delivery every week.
IOW, your $5K figure is bogus as a tool to be used by someone who wants to truly know how much they'll "save" by doing ED. There are lots of variables, but I think $2K is more representative of the true savings. I'll let things ride at that and stop belaboring this.
#324 of 1563 trying to understand ED pricing?
Mar 03, 2003 (8:36 pm)
I went to eurobuyers.com and now have confidential wholesale price for a 2004 model BMW 330Cic [effective April 1, 2003].
This board [helpfully!] has given me the approach to get a dealer to agree to [for example] $1500 over ED invoice.
Is that price based on: "Base Price Euro Delivery Munich Pick Up" on the www.eurobuyers.com site?
Also should I expect to ALSO pay in addition to the [my example] $1500 over ED invoice the DESTINATION & HANDLING fee that on the eurobuyers.com site shows an additional $635 cost?
Are there any other "typical" fees I should expect a dealer to try to additionally throw at me when I am negociating the ED price?
I really want to buy a 2004 330Cic ASAP for ED.
This board's help has been amazing.
Thanking ALL in advance.