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#109 of 158 Thanks again, Grand. Follow up ?'s.
Sep 23, 2003 (7:58 am)
These are $CAD? And a typical Canadian Corolla CE is what, a 130 hp auto with ABS, AC, CD, mats?
If that's the case, Canadian sticker is already approx at US invoice; and Access price is about invoice - $50 -- in $USD.
The Sienna CE FWD 7 with no options invoices in the US at $28K CAD, stickers at $31.1K CAD, and TMV's at $31.1K CAD (converted from $USD).
That's very interesting. It looks like MSRP's are lower in Canada, which I expected but not to the degree that they are, and Access prices are already well under US TMV.
So, another question - What's the data on the Canadian equivalent to a US Civic LX sedan with auto (115 hp, AC, no ABS, CD)?
And, another question - Is it Ontario that is the one province without Access pricing?
And a final question - To what do you attribute the spread between 'Yoda MSRP's in Canada and the US? The US distributer system, maybe?
#110 of 158 Follow up questions
Sep 23, 2003 (9:26 am)
The typical Corolla I was referring to has A/C, Auto, Keyless entry/power door locks and yes, mats. It does not have ABS, even as an option. You can order ABS as part of an option package on the Corolla S and it comes as standard on the Corolla LE.
A Honda Civic LX Auto costs C$20500 and only comes with ABS.
The only provinces that I know of with Access pricing are British Columbia, Alberta, Manitoba and parts of Quebec. As far as I know the others do not yet have Access pricing.
Canadians have less disposable income and taxation is generally higher here than in the US on auto sales. These factors make it necessary for manufacturers to offer cars at lower prices in Canada than in the US.
#111 of 158 Thank you, again, Grand,
Sep 23, 2003 (10:51 am)
I checked the links and used a currency exchange rate converter. Converted to a monetary standard, it seems that Canadian sticker is awfully close to US TMV in the case of Honda; and Toyota Access pricing is approx at US invoice.
This is very interesting to me.
1) No wonder Access Pricing has been accepted so well!
2) Edmunds TMV seems to represent value pretty well.
3) There's less marketing hooey in the Canadian market place. (?)
All of this leads me to another question. Does the Canadian system provide for 'holdback' like the US system does?
Sep 23, 2003 (11:15 am)
I'd say there is more marketing "hooey" in Canada. We do not have the equivalent of TMV, we do not have access to invoice prices (at least not for free). The Canadian market does have holdback though the rates may differ from the US.
I would not say that the Access pricing system has been accepted well, just that it is unavoidable in certain parts of the country.
#113 of 158 That's interesting, too.
Sep 23, 2003 (11:35 am)
What's your take on the relationship between the actual cost of production, distribution, etc. and MSRP in the Canadian market? MSRP is considerably lower there once the exchange rate is accounted for.
Sep 26, 2003 (4:23 am)
"1) No wonder Access Pricing has been accepted so well!"
I don't know if I would go so far as saying that. Unfortunately you are using an American mindset to analyze this. You have to use a Canadian mindset. Remember that before Access pricing that Canadians could negotiate hundreds or thousands off of MSRP(Canadian). So if MSRP(Canadian) is close to invoice(US), Canadians before were saving thousands below US invoice prices. Acess pricing may look like a good deal to an american say on a Sienna, but to a canadian it is thousands more than the same deal they could have gotten on a sienna before access pricing was started.
This is why a lot of US buyers were going to Canada to buy cars. Even hot sellers at MSRP in Canada were like paying invoice in the US, and regular buys were thousands less than in the US. But that opens up a whole nother can of worms....See related topic on gray market imports.
Sep 26, 2003 (7:16 am)
Well, I'm sure I don't have a Canadian's outlook on this; but . . . .
to echo Landru, if the cars are selling at Access price, something's going on right.
I did some poking around, and the impression that Canadian MSRP is universally lower than US just isn't so. CAD$ MSRP on my car (a Honda), for example, is about $100 higher when converted to USD$, which I think reflects exchange rate fluctuation.
So what's going on?
I don't know for sure. Comparably equiped Yoda's, however, seem to be Access priced at or below US TMV in constant dollars.
It's possible that 'Yoda Canada is doing a very un-car-biz-like thing - setting no-haggle prices very close to fair market value and eliminating a lot of sales hooey. Sorta looks that way to me.
BTW, I checked out Saturn and Scion, the two no-haggle sales process cars in the US. Scion retail is approx invoice + 5%, where Saturn retail is approx invoice + 8%.
Could it be that 'Yoda Japan is trying to leave some of the stupid North American price marketing behind?
It's all very interesting to me. As a Canadian buyer, I'd be suspicious of Access pricing; BUT
it just could be the beginning of something very good - cars list priced at the real cost of production + a reasonable profit margin.
#117 of 158 rivertown
Sep 27, 2003 (11:29 pm)
" It's possible that 'Yoda Canada is doing a very un-car-biz-like thing - setting no-haggle prices very close to fair market value and eliminating a lot of sales hooey. Sorta looks that way to me."
Unfortunately, that's not true. Otherwise, how can you explain that the "fair market value" is thousand(s) less in Ontario than the Access price? The MSRP/invoice price has not changed. So the main effect of the Access price is the fat dealer margins.
Sep 28, 2003 (7:09 am)
If, in fact, 'the "fair market value" is thousand(s) less in Ontario than the Access price', I'd have to agree with you. Is there any hard data that the average price in Ontario is thousand(s) less than the Access price?