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#1 of 158 Any tips on getting around the "non negotiable" policy
Aug 07, 2002 (4:51 pm)
Toyota has implemented a program in the major Canadian cities such as Montreal, Toronto, and Vancouver called "Access Toyota".
Basically it's to introduce a non-negotiable pricing structure. As an example the discounted Access price for an Echo is approx $200 less than MSRP and for a Highlander is approx $400 less than MSRP.
Obviously, I want to get the best deal that I can. Does any have any experience with this program? Or does anyone have any tips on how to get a better deal than what they're offering?
#2 of 158 I've been expecting
Aug 07, 2002 (5:18 pm)
this post for months. :^)
A very vocal faction on this board continually decries the fact that buying a car is like a Moroccan bazaar. They want to know the price without any negotiation hassles.
A group of posters also can't stand that someone may have paid less than they did for the same car. They think the price should be the same for everyone - just like at Walmart.
You would think that Toyota would've hit the jackpot with this one-price strategy. Everyone pays the same, the price is posted on web, and no negotiations are required. But apparently not. Now we have people wanting to get around this system. (I'm not referring just to you djcole, I've heard others complain that they can't get a lower price with Toyota's one-price system.)
There is just no way to please everyone.
Aug 08, 2002 (3:25 am)
djcole probably would not have posted his question if the Toyota one price policy had been---Echo is approx $200 above invoice and for a Highlander is approx $400 above invoice ( with no bogus distributor fees).
You are right, buyers would love no haggle, upfront pricing. They just do not want it at MSRP.
Let me give you an example...recently a friend of mine was looking at suv's. He looked at a GMC Envoy. He had narrowed down to that vehicle and another one. When he asked the salesman the price, he wrote down a quote for him on his card. The quote was basically invoice plus TTL. And he said he would get a $2500 rebate on top of that. Mind you this was the dealer's first offer. My friend decided on another vehicle, but he did not shop that price and would have bought the envoy from that salesman if he had decided on it. Nice no haggle pricing and a very pleasant experience for all.
#4 of 158 shoulda, coulda, woulda.
Aug 08, 2002 (8:47 am)
Yes, your example shows a nice pleasant experience. This example might have had some impact if it actually resulted in a sale. I assume that the dealer that actually got the sale didn't operate like this or you would've described that experience instead.
If a company has a one-price policy doesn't MSRP become just an arbitrary number? I don't even know why Toyota in this case even publishes it. I'm sure it is some legal requirement because it sure doesn't have any effect on the vehicle pricing. Let's say that next year, Toyota raises its MSRP's by $2000 but leaves its non-negotiable selling prices the same. Will people still complain that they're only getting $2000 off MSRP?
If anyone thinks they are going to get one-price policies anywhere around invoice they are dreaming. In my area, Ford cars and trucks (which no one on Edmunds would pay more than invoice for, right?) sell for an average of about $1800 over invoice. The Edmunds-type buyer who buys everything around invoice is heavily subsidized by those that pay much more. Those around-invoice deals would never happen if no one was paying more to raise the average.
#5 of 158 The truth hurts
Aug 08, 2002 (6:29 pm)
Basically, guys like me who are on the cusp of this changeover feel ripped off.
This program was introduced in Vancouver (where I live) on June 15.
Masspector hit it on the nose when he remarked that the price is just too close to the MSRP, at which we know the dealer is getting a pretty nice return.
The truth is, buyers like us who do all of our research into type of vehicle, dealer cost, manufacturer rebates, etc. just feel helpless when we can't get a better deal than the sticker price.
Aug 08, 2002 (7:44 pm)
You can have it easy or you can have it cheap but not both. I've had a few customers complain that they felt ripped-off not being able to negotiate on a Toyota. I would imagine that the pro-Walmart crowd loves it though.
If you've decided that Toyota doesn't give you good value then I guess you'll have to buy something else. If you feel that a Toyota is still better than the other alternatives then the dealer's return doesn't really enter into it, does it?
Aug 09, 2002 (4:45 am)
I asked you a question over in gey market thread. I you get a chance, can you answer it. Thanks.
You are correct that the dealer that got the sale was a more typical grind session, but that was because the other vehicle suited his needs better and the dealer chose to operate in that manner. The point of my story was that there can be pleasant no haggle at or near invoice shopping. It is still rare though. I am sure that dealership has customers that come and buy a car from them and have just as nice an experience. The majority of dealers still practice the old school startem at MSRP and work down approach, so this is what the majority of shoppers will encounter.
Why does every time a customer steps on a lot a sale must result? Surely sales people are not so naive to think that people do not shop and test drive different makes and models and dealers to help decide on a specific car they want. I am not in the car business and I would assume that an average shopper ( at least an Edmunds shopper)would shop at around 5 to 10 dealerships depending on how many different makes of car they are trying to decide between. Then once they have test driven and decided on a specific car, maybe 5 or more dealers to shop for the best price and trade value. My friend above ended up going to 10 different dealers to decide between 4 types of suv's he was intersted in. Once he picked one, he went to 4 of that makes dealers to negotiate price.
#8 of 158 Access Toyota
Aug 09, 2002 (10:04 am)
Maybe buyers are having problems with this system because they're used to being able to negotiate on Toyotas. I'm wondering if this type of system will only work when it's instituted from the start, the way it was with Saturn (I think?) so no one has memories of being able to get the cars for much less than MSRP.
#10 of 158 Toyota Canada Access Pricing
Oct 01, 2003 (7:37 am)