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3185 messages, Last post on Nov 18, 2009 at 9:02 AM
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Dear Edmunds This time I published this post on 2 discussion groups only. So please don't delete it. Thanks. ################################################################### There are only 7 vehicles probably because the problem just started to show up. 2005 was the 1st year when VSA was installed on Pilots, so 2005 Pilots have the oldest VSAs, so the most likely to fail. Years ago I predicted that VSAs will kill people. I even had lots of posts removed from this web site (Edmunds accused me of SPAM, because I posted my post on about 50 discussion groups, if I remember correctly). Also the local newspaper accepted to publish my article about the dangers of a malfunctioning Stability System (January 2006). I also sent my article to NHTSA (January 2007). At that time I was predicting that when malfunctioning VSA will steer the cars randomly all over the place because of applying the brakes on one side of the vehicle (to correct for an imaginary skid, when the computer would receive a wrong information from a bad sensor). Well ... it seems that these days it applies the brakes on all wheels, not just on one side as I was predicting. ############################################################### The following is the letter I had sent to NHTSA (in January 2007), and their confirmation of receipt: Thank you for contacting the U.S. Department of Transportation’s Vehicle Safety Hotline Information Center. We appreciate the time you have taken to contact us and value your opinion. Your comments have been forwarded to the appropriate NHTSA personnel. However, if you need additional information on our services please feel free to contact us at 1-888-327-4236. Thank you, NHTSA.dot.gov Response Team Disclaimer: "This response is for information purposes only and does not constitute an official communication of the U.S. Department of Transportation. For an official response, please write U.S. Department of Transportation, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, 400 7th Street, SW, Washington, DC 20590. > Dear NHTSA, > > In my opinion you expose yourself to huge lawsuits by making the ESC mandatory (49 CFR Parts 571 and 585 - Electronic Stability Control Systems; Proposed Rule). Please, in the name of mankind, read carefully my letter. I am a 42 years old Electronics Test Engineer, so I know a lot about electronic systems. I understand that you have good intentions and want to protect us. But you don't see the whole picture. By only looking at the technical performance of new VSC systems you miss some major points: > 1) You miss the fact that these systems will kill people when they will become defective (because of age, vibrations, thermal cycles over many years, hardware bugs, software bugs, etc). You authorize a computer to steer a car ... well it will do it when needed, or when not needed (if defective). So some family somewhere in America will drive in straight line, on a sunny summer day, on dry pavement, and suddenly the old and defective steering sensor will send to the computer the wrong information (let's say "steering wheel turned max to the left"). The computer, thinking that the driver turned the steering wheel to the left, will apply the left side brakes to abruptly steer the car to the left (let's say in the path of an incoming 18 wheeler). Fortunately for you all of them will die, so it will be nobody to sue you. BUT after many people will be killed, some other family, another sunny day, could escape alive. And those people will sue you. > 2) The 2nd fact you miss is the impact of such systems on people's health. For instance my heart skips a beat (or a couple of beats) when the ESC system activates. Do you think that is "safe" for me ?!? It's because I don't expect somebody else to steer and brake my car. I never had any health problems when skidding on ice ! > 3) The 3rd fact you miss is that you create dumber drivers. Overconfident too. For 10 years I drove a rear wheel Volvo 240 wagon. It was skidding on snow all the time, but that was never a problem, because by instinct I was turning the steering wheel to the right position. New drivers, driving these ESC cars, will never have that instinct. So they will become dumber drivers. But they will be overconfident too, because they will trust the damn computer, which will let them down when they will try to break the physics laws (so they will go into the ditch). Do you think that the dumb&overconfident combination is safe ? > 4) In 10 years these 2007 cars will be owned by modest-income people, so it's likely they won't spend thousands of dollars to fix fancy electronic systems. Nobody will care about warning lights ! They will keep driving them and put all of us (your children too) at risk. > 5) Very limited testing. Testing of such a complex system (supposed in good health) cannot be done for an infinity of scenarios. Testing will be limited to a small number of road scenarios, and will also be done on young, properly functioning systems. No test engineer or designer will be able to know with 100% certitude that those systems will be safe. BUT I can tell you with 100% certitude that those systems will become older, and will malfunction, at a certain point in time. Isn't that obvious ? Do not believe that the diagnostic system will pick up any malfunctions. I spent my whole life debugging electronic systems, and I can tell you that there is an infinite number of possible malfunctions in such a complex electronic system (sensors, modules, wiring, connections, rusty grounds etc). A designer can't imagine and predict an infinite number of problems and scenarios. > > Solution: > In my opinion your ESC regulation should either disappear from the face of the Earth, or it should require manufacturers to install a separate fuse for the ESC system. With such a fuse available, any car owner would be able to PERMANENTLY disable a system authorized to kill him and his family (if defective), without disabling any other car electronic system (ABS, braking etc). Also if in 10 years a certain manufacturer realizes that it manufactured a million of dangerous cars, that manufacturer could issue a cheap recall (to remove that fuse), so cheaply convert a million of dangerous cars into a million of safe cars (ESC free). > > Final comments: > What nobody at NHTSA seems to notice is that for the 1st time in automotive history, the computer has been given the right to kill. And you want to make it a mandatory feature! > Can't you see the lawsuits against you ? Can't you see our lives at the mercy of a damn aging computer ?!
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Rodent: Air bags kill too, but I think the benefits outweigh the risks.
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Replying to: mercara (Nov 08, 2008 10:10 am) These Stability Systems could become extremely lucrative for lawyers. I think some lawyers will keep their eyes glued to these systems (sold by any manufacturer, because actually Honda was one of the last ones to offer it as standard feature on their cars). And it's "Rodut", not "Rodent" !!! Peace |
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Will someone describe where I might find the transmission fill location on my 2006 Honda Pilot (EX 4wd)? I have found the drain plug underneath, and of course the ATF dipstick, but I cannot find the fill plug. The location is not given in the owner's manual. Perhaps Honda does not want "Weekend mechanics" doing weekend maintenance. Any help would be great!! Thank you! |
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Hi, the strangest thing happened to my rear tail lights on my 2003 Pilot. The section where the brake lamp is located, the small cap that covers the lamp popped out on both tail lights. The upper caps are still in place.The caps have dropped down to the bottom of the tail light assembly. I can't even remove the red lense to pop the caps back in place since they are factory sealed. I want to take a picture and send it to Honda. I wonder if this is a defect of some kind. Has anyone experienced this issue. I'm sure that when I'm driving and going over bumps, the caps are tossing around in the tail light assembly. Someone has suggested to use an exacto knife to remove the lense, but I think that once you open the seal it will always retain water afterwards even with a good silicone seal. Any ideas out there?????????? 
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Replying to: vibo (Nov 09, 2008 10:54 pm) |
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Replying to: vibo (Nov 09, 2008 10:54 pm) http://www.hondapilot.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20413&highlight=ATF
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Replying to: bigdadi118 (Nov 10, 2008 7:57 am) |
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I was told by a dealership that the transmission should not be flushed, just replace the fluid?
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Replying to: toms422 (Nov 12, 2008 2:53 pm) How much more does a flush cost than replacing the fluid? amigo_john, "Isuzu Trooper" #8070, 30 Jun 2003 6:46 am |
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