Last post on Apr 20, 2013 at 5:53 PM
You are in the Honda Pilot
What is this discussion about?
Honda Pilot, Electrical, Engine, Steering, SUV
Go to NHTSA to file a safety complaint.
Or call Monday-Friday (8 am to 8 pm ET) (888) 327-4236 TTY: (800)424-9153
#2933 of 3426 Re: 03 Pilot using oil [ljm2043]
Nov 03, 2008 (10:36 pm)
I agree it's nuts. I tend to replace the engine oil at 4,000 or 5000 miles, which would mean 4 or 5 quarts of oil gone at service time ?! But the engine takes about 5 quarts in total, so your engine would be almost without any oil in it at service time. Engines without oil tend to melt !
Our 2008 Pilot is our 4th Honda, and I always saw less than 1 quart of oil consumption for 5000 miles. I didn't drive any of our Hondas more than 100,000 miles though. Perhaps you have a very high mileage Pilot, which could explain the wear on the engine ... and perhaps the dealer saw the high mileage, that's why he said it was normal.
#2934 of 3426 Re: 03 Pilot using oil [rodut]
Nov 04, 2008 (8:27 pm)
Well, it's a 2003 with 112,000 miles. Not high mileage considering I had a 91 civic with 185,000 miles and didn't have a problem like this.
#2935 of 3426 Major brake malfunction '05 Pilot EX-L
Nov 05, 2008 (7:23 am)
In the discussion relating to the '03 to '05 Pilots, seven people have brought up a potentially life-threatening brake problem which seems specifically related to the '05 EX-L model. I don't know whether the problem properly belongs in this discussion, so I thought that I would at least bring it up here. Ralph
Nov 05, 2008 (3:24 pm)
True, that's not high mileage. Perhaps you have a leak, not a worn oil-eating engine. Do you have an oil spot on the pavement where you park your car ? That would be a leak. Also don't forget that some gaskets leak only when you drive the car, not when it's parked. Have a technician lift the car and look underneath for oil leaks. They are way cheaper to fix. If you replaced the oil often enough I would say it's impossible for a Honda engine to burn that much oil, that's why I am thinking at a simple leak.
Ralph, what brake malfunction ? And what's the difference betwee the EX-L brakes and the other models brakes ? I thought all of them were exactly the same.
Nov 06, 2008 (8:36 am)
There are seven people with this brake problem and a descriptions of it can be found in the discussion of '03 to '05 Pilots on this board. Ralph
#2938 of 3426 Unsafe VSA - Unexpected sudden braking
Nov 06, 2008 (3:05 pm)
A vehicle that randomly brakes by itself on the highway ?!? My god ...
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#2939 of 3426 VSA, the "safety system", will kill people !
Nov 08, 2008 (8:23 am)
This time I published this post on 2 discussion groups only. So please don't delete it. Thanks.
There are only 7 vehicles probably because the problem just started to show up. 2005 was the 1st year when VSA was installed on Pilots, so 2005 Pilots have the oldest VSAs, so the most likely to fail.
Years ago I predicted that VSAs will kill people. I even had lots of posts removed from this web site (Edmunds accused me of SPAM, because I posted my post on about 50 discussion groups, if I remember correctly). Also the local newspaper accepted to publish my article about the dangers of a malfunctioning Stability System (January 2006). I also sent my article to NHTSA (January 2007).
At that time I was predicting that when malfunctioning VSA will steer the cars randomly all over the place because of applying the brakes on one side of the vehicle (to correct for an imaginary skid, when the computer would receive a wrong information from a bad sensor). Well ... it seems that these days it applies the brakes on all wheels, not just on one side as I was predicting.
The following is the letter I had sent to NHTSA (in January 2007), and their confirmation of receipt:
Thank you for contacting the U.S. Department of Transportationís Vehicle Safety Hotline Information Center.
We appreciate the time you have taken to contact us and value your opinion. Your comments have been forwarded to the appropriate NHTSA personnel.
However, if you need additional information on our services please feel free to contact us at 1-888-327-4236.
NHTSA.dot.gov Response Team
Disclaimer: "This response is for information purposes only and does not constitute an official communication of the U.S. Department of Transportation. For an official response, please write U.S. Department of Transportation, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, 400 7th Street, SW, Washington, DC 20590.
> Dear NHTSA,
> In my opinion you expose yourself to huge lawsuits by making the ESC mandatory (49 CFR Parts 571 and 585 - Electronic Stability Control Systems; Proposed Rule). Please, in the name of mankind, read carefully my letter. I am a 42 years old Electronics Test Engineer, so I know a lot about electronic systems. I understand that you have good intentions and want to protect us. But you don't see the whole picture. By only looking at the technical performance of new VSC systems you miss some major points:
> 1) You miss the fact that these systems will kill people when they will become defective (because of age, vibrations, thermal cycles over many years, hardware bugs, software bugs, etc). You authorize a computer to steer a car ... well it will do it when needed, or when not needed (if defective). So some family somewhere in America will drive in straight line, on a sunny summer day, on dry pavement, and suddenly the old and defective steering sensor will send to the computer the wrong information (let's say "steering wheel turned max to the left"). The computer, thinking that the driver turned the steering wheel to the left, will apply the left side brakes to abruptly steer the car to the left (let's say in the path of an incoming 18 wheeler). Fortunately for you all of them will die, so it will be nobody to sue you. BUT after many people will be killed, some other family, another sunny day, could escape alive. And those people will sue you.
> 2) The 2nd fact you miss is the impact of such systems on people's health. For instance my heart skips a beat (or a couple of beats) when the ESC system activates. Do you think that is "safe" for me ?!? It's because I don't expect somebody else to steer and brake my car. I never had any health problems when skidding on ice !
> 3) The 3rd fact you miss is that you create dumber drivers. Overconfident too. For 10 years I drove a rear wheel Volvo 240 wagon. It was skidding on snow all the time, but that was never a problem, because by instinct I was turning the steering wheel to the right position. New drivers, driving these ESC cars, will never have that instinct. So they will become dumber drivers. But they will be overconfident too, because they will trust the damn computer, which will let them down when they will try to break the physics laws (so they will go into the ditch). Do you think that the dumb&overconfident combination is safe ?
> 4) In 10 years these 2007 cars will be owned by modest-income people, so it's likely they won't spend thousands of dollars to fix fancy electronic systems. Nobody will care about warning lights ! They will keep driving them and put all of us (your children too) at risk.
> 5) Very limited testing. Testing of such a complex system (supposed in good health) cannot be done for an infinity of scenarios. Testing will be limited to a small number of road scenarios, and will also be done on young, properly functioning systems. No test engineer or designer will be able to know with 100% certitude that those systems will be safe. BUT I can tell you with 100% certitude that those systems will become older, and will malfunction, at a certain point in time. Isn't that obvious ? Do not believe that the diagnostic system will pick up any malfunctions. I spent my whole life debugging electronic systems, and I can tell you that there is an infinite number of possible malfunctions in such a complex electronic system (sensors, modules, wiring, connections, rusty grounds etc). A designer can't imagine and predict an infinite number of problems and scenarios.
> In my opinion your ESC regulation should either disappear from the face of the Earth, or it should require manufacturers to install a separate fuse for the ESC system. With such a fuse available, any car owner would be able to PERMANENTLY disable a system authorized to kill him and his family (if defective), without disabling any other car electronic system (ABS, braking etc). Also if in 10 years a certain manufacturer realizes that it manufactured a million of dangerous cars, that manufacturer could issue a cheap recall (to remove that fuse), so cheaply convert a million of dangerous cars into a million of safe cars (ESC free).
> Final comments:
> What nobody at NHTSA seems to notice is that for the 1st time in automotive history, the computer has been given the right to kill. And you want to make it a mandatory feature!
> Can't you see the lawsuits against you ? Can't you see our lives at the mercy of a damn aging computer ?!
Nov 08, 2008 (11:10 am)
Air bags kill too, but I think the benefits outweigh the risks.
#2941 of 3426 Lucrative Stability Systems ...
Nov 08, 2008 (4:33 pm)
The difference is that the airbags kill you if you misuse them (you stay too close, or put a child in the front seat, etc ...). Stability systems kill you without you being at fault in any way (just driving the wrong car at the wrong time).
These Stability Systems could become extremely lucrative for lawyers. I think some lawyers will keep their eyes glued to these systems (sold by any manufacturer, because actually Honda was one of the last ones to offer it as standard feature on their cars).
And it's "Rodut", not "Rodent" !!!
#2942 of 3426 2006 Pilot: Transmission Fill Location
Nov 09, 2008 (11:54 pm)
Will someone describe where I might find the transmission fill location on my 2006 Honda Pilot (EX 4wd)?
I have found the drain plug underneath, and of course the ATF dipstick, but I cannot find the fill plug. The location is not given in the owner's manual. Perhaps Honda does not want "Weekend mechanics" doing weekend maintenance.
Any help would be great!! Thank you!