Honda FCX - Fuel Cell

26 messages, Last post on Mar 22, 2008 at 6:19 PM

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#17 of 26: Re: First Honda FCX To Customer [Sylvia] by rorr; Oct 05, 2005 (1:10 pm)

Replying to: Sylvia (Jul 06, 2005 4:14 pm)

Getting back to the topic at hand:

Does anyone have any idea where the hydrogen comes from which will be at the 'emerging network of hydrogen refueling stations'? Will the hydrogen be generated on site and, if so, what is the power source?

rorr (Oct 05, 2005 1:27 pm)
stevedebi (Oct 05, 2005 1:45 pm)
- rorr (Oct 10, 2005 7:27 am)
- lewz (Mar 22, 2008 6:19 pm)

#18 of 26: Re: First Honda FCX To Customer [rorr] by rorr; Oct 05, 2005 (1:27 pm)

Replying to: rorr (Oct 05, 2005 1:10 pm)

Actually, I think I found the answer to my own question:

Apparently, the hydrogen at these refueling systems will be generated on-site using natural gas (unless someone can correct me on that).

Which leads to a further question: given the inefficiencies of generating hydrogen from natural gas (more energy is consumed to generate the hydrogen than energy available in the hydrogen) as well as the inefficiencies within the fuel cell and drivetrain of the vehicle, wouldn't it make more sense to simply burn the natural gas directly in a natural gas powered vehicle?

Or are these the type of questions that one shouldn't ask when discussing fuel cells?

#19 of 26: Re: First Honda FCX To Customer [rorr] by stevedebi; Oct 05, 2005 (1:45 pm)

Replying to: rorr (Oct 05, 2005 1:10 pm)

"Does anyone have any idea where the hydrogen comes from which will be at the 'emerging network of hydrogen refueling stations'? Will the hydrogen be generated on site and, if so, what is the power source?"

Hmmm, interesting question. I had always assumed that it would be produced by cleaner buring technologies, like wind, solar, or hydro (or atomic, if the waste problem can be resolved). Otherwise, while hydrogen gets us out of oil, it doesn't help pollution.

rorr (Oct 10, 2005 7:27 am)
lewz (Mar 22, 2008 6:19 pm)

#20 of 26: Re: First Honda FCX To Customer [stevedebi] by rorr; Oct 10, 2005 (7:27 am)

Replying to: stevedebi (Oct 05, 2005 1:45 pm)

Regarding hydrogen production -

"I had always assumed that it would be produced by cleaner buring technologies, like wind, solar, or hydro..."

Yeah, we've got SUCH an excess of power from wind, solar, or hydro, I'm sure we'd have no problem using it for large scale hydrogen production.....

The reality is, with large fleets of hydrogen fuel cell cars, the hydrogen will HAVE to be produced through the consumption of fossil fuels at either large scale production plants or at the hydrogen refueling station. But, since it takes MORE energy to produce the hydrogen than can POTENTIALLY be extracted in a fuel cell, the overall energy balance would mean the consumption of MORE fossil fuels with a transition to hydrogen fuel cells, rather than less.

#21 of 26: Honda Fuel Cell - LA Auto Show by Sylvia STAFF; Jan 10, 2006 (7:32 am)

Here's a photo from the LA Auto Show...

Sylvia (Apr 19, 2006 4:55 pm)

HondaFuelCell.JPG
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#22 of 26: Re: Honda Fuel Cell - LA Auto Show [Sylvia] by Sylvia STAFF; Apr 19, 2006 (4:55 pm)

Replying to: Sylvia (Jan 10, 2006 7:32 am)

Photo is here: http://www.carspace.com/sylvia/.5992c0b6

You can see my entire LA Auto Show Album http://www.carspace.com/sylvia/.5992c08e/

#23 of 26: Re: fuelcells.org [rfruth] by allcarsrcool; Sep 24, 2006 (1:23 pm)

Replying to: rfruth (Sep 22, 2002 3:23 pm)

Thats right, but this is honda's 2nd gen. fuel cell technology... by collecting real world data, honda will put their 3rd gen fuel cell into a new model by 2012

#26 of 26: Re: First Honda FCX To Customer [stevedebi] by lewz; Mar 22, 2008 (6:19 pm)

Replying to: stevedebi (Oct 05, 2005 1:45 pm)

Hydrogen can be generated by splitting water with DC current or by reacting a metal such as Zinc with an acid. I would prefer the electrolysis method using a solar cell on the hood of the car itself. This would work well for cars in the city with short trips but the sunlight would be blocked by buildings. Any way you look at it large scale production of hydrogen would need to be based on a renewable such as Ethanol. Pehaps a small generator with a peaked and tweaked engine could be used as a hydrid type situation. Cutting the consumption would be the frst step then the next cycles of technology can come in and improve the first design.