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#5220 of 19336 CEL - P0139 - '04 2.5X Engine Knock
May 31, 2005 (3:16 pm)
Our 2004 Forester 2.5X (non-turbo) 5-Speed has often had a very light, intermittent engine knock at 40mph at around 2100 RPM with a light throttle. Three Subaru dealers have done the shoulder-shrug "can't-replicate" on the service report.
The Check Engine Light illuminated for the very first time late today, so my wife drove to the dealer for a diagnosis. The computer threw a P0139 - Rear Oxygen Sensor Circuit Slow Response. The dealer reset the CEL lamp and told my wife to "keep an eye on it".
What exactly does this error mean?
Could it be the key to the intermittent pinging solution we've been seeking for 1-1/2 years?
Thanks for any advice.
#5221 of 19336 Re: terrible noise on turning? [pique]
Jun 01, 2005 (3:42 am)
This problem is consistent with a failed CV joint. They normally don't fail this early, but if they were defective to begin with or if the rubber boots are cracked or not sealed properly it could happen. Normally one fails first so that it makes that noise only when you turn hard in one direction if I remember correctly. Since yours make the noise in bith directions it might also be the power steering pump. These are educated guesses since I'm not a mechanic. Good luck.
#5222 of 19336 Re: Steering column vibration [omabluebird]
Jun 01, 2005 (10:31 am)
Assuming they have a clue as to what they are doing, they should have made some attempt to remove the mud (if there was any) before balancing the wheels. Otherwise, you have a totally unbalanced and variable system. If they did that, and rotated the tires (front to back), the feeling you experience in the steering wheel should have changed. If not, then something might have been damaged suspension wise when you hit the deep hole. Usually simple alignment problems don't cause what you describe, but if say a bushing retainer was damaged and there is free play, it could act up at speed.
#5223 of 19336 Re: Check Engine Light off and on [qbert2]
Jun 01, 2005 (10:44 am)
Intermittent problems will trigger a CEL. If the problem does not reoccur, the light will typically go out in 3-4 drive cycles (from fully cool back to normal temp). The light shouldn't reset any faster than that.
Your observation that the light was off when cold, and came on at about a mile accompanied by a slight hesitation might be significant. Initially the car is operating in 'open loop'. When the temp gauge reaches just short of normal (about a mile??), OBD switches to closed loop, and now uses the O2 sensor to regulate the mixture. The O2 sensor might be iffy, and messed up the mixture during this transition, causing the hesitation and triggering the light. If it doesn't happen again for a while, the light will go out on the 4th startup, but the code along with the conditions at the time are all stored. I get this too occasionally on my '02 OBW.
#5224 of 19336 Re: CEL - P0139 - '04 2.5X Engine Knock [asa]
Jun 01, 2005 (11:21 am)
OBD2 uses two oxygen sensors, one before and one after the cat con. The front one does the active job of sampling and reporting for the purpose of regulating fuel/air mixture. That sensor could potentially play a roll in pinging, but not the rear. The rear one is really just a monitor of how efficient the cat is at using up all the available oxygen in the 'burning' of leftover hydrocarbons. If it comes on again, it could be a low efficiency cat, or as the code suggested, a slow to respond (warm up) sensor. Cat is covered for 80k miles, but the sensor only to 3yr/36m.
#5225 of 19336 crank pulley
Jun 01, 2005 (4:26 pm)
im not very car literate. im not good at remembering names of things, but i need to rant and i need help so here goes...
i recently acquired a subaru forester 98. for the most part a great car... a few months ago i heard squeaking/rubbing and thinking it was a bad belt discovered my crank pulley had separated (i hope that makes sense. the stock model has rubber separating the outside where belts connect and the inside where it bolts on.) scary to drive on we (my boyfriend, Ben... the one who fixes things) decide to go with an aftermarket part seeing as it is the same price but better. this being a new vehicle for Ben to work on consults the local Subaru dealer trying to find the 'proper' tools for the job. we were told it was a reverse thread... several times!!! ...it was not ...we broke tools trying to remove it... made new tools to try again and what do you know? we snapped the bolt... if only i had switched my insurance to storage sooner... the wonderful guys at the dealership wanted no responsiblilty claiming what they say on the phone can't be held against them.. especially because we took the liberty of doing the work ourselfs.. bastards
but he got it out! ...if you can believe it he super glued a wooden doweling rod to the end and just twisted out the broken threads (with the old part still on the threads didn't bottom out and came out fine)
now were not sure how to get the new part in (as the motor still moves.) just picked up the new bolt (had to get it through the dealership because when they didnt have it in and i asked for the specs to find it elsewhere i got put on hold and than told they dont know and couldnt find the specs!!! are they serious???) *sigh* so anyway... im sure there is some little simple thing to do to stop the turning and make this be a happy ending.
please help- sera
#5226 of 19336 Re: crank pulley [sera]
Jun 01, 2005 (7:52 pm)
Sorry to hear about your problems. Bad info makes any job that much more frustrating. It looks like Subaru uses conventional thread direction for the crank bolt (someone who has done a subi timing belt please comment...), but I do seem to remember finding reversed threads on previous cars.
The front pully also serves as a harmonic dampener for the crank, which is part of the reason for the rubber isolation between the dampener section and the pulley. Only once have I had that interface fail (an old Nissan), and that had reverse threads, IIRC.
If your Forester is a manual, you have it made. Put it in 5th, and the crankshaft should be locked in place. If it is an automatic, it gets more tricky. Subaru has a special service tool that slips into the holes found on some crank pulleys to hold everything still. Alternatives include removing the starter and wedging something in place to hold the flex plate (flywheel) teeth.
It is also a good idea to change the front oil seal while you are there.
#5227 of 19336 Re: My rough steps [ateixeira]
Jun 02, 2005 (3:27 am)
Hello. Enjoyed your post! At the ready, I have beer, poison ivy, and a new fuel filter to install on my 01 Forester. I thought that I would give it a whirl last night. I loosened the clamps on the lines going in / out of the old filter. It turns out that the lines are still way tight on the old filter's fitting. I leaned on them a bit, but I didn't want to break anything. I figured that I would seek some advice before I risked my ride to work.
Any tips on loosening , removing, and then replacing the fuel lines on the filter fittings? Thanks.
#5228 of 19336 Re: My rough steps [rph5g]
Jun 02, 2005 (4:16 am)
I have used slip joint pliers. Most have a pipe grip just past the nose region that is perfect for this application. Wrap the fuel line in two-three layers of cloth or paper towel, and clamp light/moderately with the pliers. Rotate maybe 1/16 of a turn to break the 'weld' between the rubber and steel. It should then just slip right off.
#5229 of 19336 Re: My rough steps [rph5g]
Jun 02, 2005 (8:31 am)
Despite my best efforts, when I changed the fuel filter for the 2nd time in our 03 OBW I caused a surface tear in the hose going from the output side of the filter to the manifold.
Not the end of the world, but what happened next was interesting.....
I went to the dealer to get a similar length of fuel line, he measured it and "no charged" it for me since I buy all of my maintenance parts through him.
Anyway, I installed the hose and everything was fine. For about a week. Then I looked under the hood to add some w/w fluid and noticed that the new hose was noticeably swollen. As in really swollen. I think the hose was SAE 7 rated. I bought a hose rated for high pressure fuel injected cars (SAE 9?) from PepBoys. Swapped them out and its been fine ever since.
I may have the SAE numbers wrong, but do remember the hose I bought from PepBoys was a different, and I think higher, SAE number.
Wouldn't have been pretty if the other hose had ruptured.