Last post on May 19, 2002 at 4:39 PM
You are in the Pickups - Archived Discussions
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May 18, 2002 (8:30 am)
"Come on now....IMHO, Toyota owners are MUCH more likely to over-rate their truck's quality when surveyed than other vehicle owners. Just look at the owners ratings here on Edmunds. Or take a look at CR. Their ratings are compiled from owners who return a survey form. CR does test vehicles themselves, but their annual auto ratings are based on very unscientific/unverified survey returns. Several of the Toyota owners who post here are a perfect example of what I am saying.......They act like they don't even believe it when another Toyota owner posts a problem and asks for help."
I don't believe you said that. That's completely ridiculous. Maybe some of the diehard toyota fans would mark their survey forms as all good, but so would diehard Chevy fanatics or Ford junkies. FYI - I consider myself pro Ford but bought a Toyota cause I felt it was overall the best choice for me, not because it's a "Toyota". And I don't have a problem telling the truth about my auto experiences when marking a survey form. I feel this is an good way for the manufacturer to improve upon the products it makes.
So, I think it washes out in the end. I'm not sure, but I'm guessing that's why they always state that surveys have a +/- rating of a couple of percentage points which would include people intentionally and unintentionally skewing the results(but don't shoot me with that .45 if I'm wrong - just thinking out loud). And how do you go about verifying survey info anyways? That's a pretty tedious job with any kind of meaningful survey sample. DaveCrook1 knows about TS. I responded to his first post way back when he was looking for a dealer in the East that would do a special build for him. I pointed him to the TS website.
Face it - the reason the Tundra gets good ratings is because the truck IS good. Maybe not good to people that don't like or own the truck, but good to the majority of those who actually have one, as reflected in the ratings. Fire away!
May 18, 2002 (9:05 am)
Yes I know Fred, his wife, and kids.
YES he just got rid of his 11 yo Chevy
for a new Tundra ! He is from Syracuse
I am in Hannibal (30 miles north). We
both have summer places in Alexandria Bay
NY ! I would of taken that handle but he
had it and I contacted him thru E-mail !
He likes his new Tundra, but had question
about port, dest, regional fees whatever !
I turned him on to the OTHER site cuz they
let all the dealers sell all over THOSE
threads (BUT NOT HERE) sO that he could get
an HONEST ANSWER ! NOT !!!!!!!
If you would archive back thru the 'rado
threads you will see his old posts !
But u being new here I understand......Geo
#124 of 161 I agree, twowheeler
May 18, 2002 (9:15 am)
In fact, being that Toyota owners are more demanding than average (because they've been spoiled), I would venture to say they would complain more than your average vehicle owner when something goes awry. For example, about 3000 Toyotas out of 3 million + were found to have some kind of oil sludge problem. With all the commotion that caused, you would have thought the apocalypse was upon us! By comparison, GM would be relieved if only 3000 of their engines knocked.
To take my example even further, look how many people complain of Toyota rust to this day, right sonjaab?
No, I would say the Toyota folks are pretty critical are forthcoming when they rate their vehicles. But kudos to the GM folks. Good effort on their part!
May 18, 2002 (9:28 am)
And I had 2 3yo rusted ones with the bad
head gaskets and the 1 yr 12k warranty.
Check out that OTHER SITE for Tundra
problems. Real owners and problems !
May 18, 2002 (9:30 am)
See, sonjaab was a Toyota owner and look how critical he is! My point exactly. Thanks for the illustration, sonjaab.
#127 of 161 Somehow I don't believe you, Geo
May 18, 2002 (9:40 am)
ttt on a engine/drivetrain topic while you were posting here. Hmmmm....
#128 of 161 twowheeler....
May 18, 2002 (9:45 am)
I notice you don't refute my point about several Tundra owners here who will not believe another Tundra owner posting for help with a problem. I would post links, but most of them are in the CLOSED toyota Tundra problems. Why do you think that the owner ratings on this board are so much higher than the editors ratings on the Toyota trucks? I watched through the 70's and through 1986, as CR users and editors recommended Toyota products while they were rusting off the frames.
Please don't try to imply that I have EVER said Tundras are BAD trucks. Are they Perfect, or the Best at everything from towing to hauling to handling to ride to comfort to size to quality to power? No, I don't think so. BUT, some of the Tundra owners who post on Edmunds like to insist that they are. I have never considered your posts to reflect that attitude.
Also, remember that CR surveys are skewed geographically, as well as economically and politically. If I can find the article someone posted about their bias and why it exists, I'll post the link again.
If you want another example of Toyota owners having a reason to trivialize their problems, consider this: How many times have you heard Tundra owners/wanna be's on this board say how low GM owners expectations are? Implying that their expectations for their choice of vehicle is so much higher. Therefore, IF they admit having problems with their Toyota, they are admitting they made a bad choice. They have to perpetuate the perception, true or not, that Toyotas are trouble free in order to keep bashing the quality of other brands.
Does Toyota build quality trucks? Yes, IMHO. But, so do Ford, GM, and plenty of others. The few Tundra owners who frequent this board want everyone who visits here to believe Tundras are perfect AND GMs are junk. They do not seem to be able to discuss their problems (or others) like the Ford, Dodge,and GM guys do in their topics. BUT, there are other discussion sites where this happens.
May 18, 2002 (9:47 am)
there is only one authorized Toy dealer that posts on TS. One of the moderators there tried to explain that to Alexbay but got no response. Again, I think it's you buddy!!!
May 18, 2002 (9:53 am)
"Why do you think that the owner ratings on this board are so much higher than the editors ratings on the Toyota trucks?"
Don't you think that comment would be more applicable to the Sierra? I urge you to read Edmunds' long term review of their Sierra, then compare their opinion of the truck to owner ratings on this board.
May 18, 2002 (10:41 am)
Just responding to your reply, no flames here intended:
I didn't refute your point about the Tundra owners non-belief of any problems cause I didn't get the impression that they perceived the truck to be perfect, or that they were just stating that as a joke. Maybe I'm wrong on that, cause there was quite abit of back and forth in the last week or so just prior to the thread closing. Just go over to TS and you'll see that there are problems with the truck (any vehicle has problems).
In my previous post I wasn't implying that you thought the truck sucked, I was making a statement in general. Actually, I think I remember that you posted that you'd be interested in a Toy truck if it had all the features you were looking for right?
"I watched through the 70's and through 1986, as CR users and editors recommended Toyota products while they were rusting off the frames"
I don't know of a easier/better way to get average performance data than that back in the '70 through the mid 80's. It's easier access and there's more info available now in the 21 Century. Also, it's natural to form an opinion on something based on a couple of examples, heck -I admit I prolly do it all the time.
I don't agree that the CR surveys are skewed as you mentioned other than possibly, financially. I think the article you are referring to was posted by Quad several weeks ago. But after my rebuttal post on the article, the post got deleted somehow. The article said something about CA being all winding roads or something, which is ludicrious (sp).
Yeah, I seriously considered the Silverado because of looks/performance/price/features and could of ended up owning one, had it not been for my reservations about the reliability. F150 was a contender but didn't like the crash test results. I am not loyal to ANY brand other than Ford Mustangs (I gonna be building my 5-oh into a camaro eater soon - no rice here!). I consider my expectations very high, so I agree with you that the statements about GM owners having low expectations are not correct, cause I could see myself in a GM truck (if I had more confidence in the reliability).
BTW, my Tundra is not perfect, it's got a fairly small resonance type vibration coming through the driver side floorpan at about 2500 rpm at any speed. I'm guessing it's the natural frequency of something under there and hopefully all that is needed is to tie it down abit or install some kind of isolation media, like on the brake lines or converter heat shields or something. But so far, nothing else (knock on wood). Had it up to 100 mph the other day and was pretty stable. Not bad for a truck.
Well, sorry for the long post. I gotta get out of here and do something today other than sitting at the computer (yes dear, I'll be right there...)
Have a good weekend.