Last post on Mar 29, 2007 at 5:33 AM
You are in the Toyota Tundra
What is this discussion about?
Toyota Tundra, Chevrolet Silverado 1500, Truck
#100 of 2059 Re: Sales 
Jan 09, 2007 (7:32 am)
Currently the 2006 Tundra has $4000 in customer rebates and $500 dealer incentives. Seems reasonable to me and similar to GM.
The Seqouia is the same but has $2000 dealer incentive. Bit high.
Trucks are having a hard time due to gas prices and competition from the crossovers. No news there. It effects all makers. Until capacity is brought in line we will see continued price reduction. Toyota may be in trouble with a whole new plant of Tundras. They may not be able to use all the capacity and if so will have to do something like lower price/rebates which they can easily afford to do. Remember they started the planning for the plant and truck well before gas prices spiked a year ago. they are not all knowing.
#101 of 2059 Re: Sales 
Jan 09, 2007 (7:32 am)
Wow, you got my interest with that post. Lessee...
1. Hybrids: Honda is going diesel, which is why they are de-emphasizing hybrids. And yes, they went "performance" instead of "frugality" with the Accord hybrid, which is why it didn't sell well. A miscalculation on their part, but the fact remains that they have the highest average fleet fuel economy of any of the majors, even WITH gas pigs like the Ridgeline.
On the flip side, I commend GM for their commitment to hybrids, but the actual DELIVERY remains scant at this point. I can't wait to see how much gas the GMT900 hybrids can save vs their gas-only counterparts, but the Vue doesn't save very much (maybe 10% real-world, vs the 4-cylinder gas) and their first effort, the Silverado, was really more of a mobile generator than an actual gas-saving technology.
2. Tundra's interior is purely a matter for speculation at this point, isn't it? Much the way the interior of the new Malibu is? We have seen pictures and come to conclusions, but except for the lucky few that could get to the Detroit show, no-one has seen or touched it yet. As for sales, Toyota hopes to RAMP UP to 200K sales a year, but is not expecting that right away. They are hoping for a 20% increase over the old model, or about 150K per year, in the first or second years. (CY2007 won't quite be a full year, as full availability won't happen until March).
You are correct that Toyota's strategy with the new Tundra is interesting for this company: it is the first time they have consciously made the decision to forego fuel economy in favor of size and power - all their market research showed that buyers in this segment have less regard for economy than they do for power and size. Officials of the company have stated as much in interviews.
3. Rebates: Toyota is currently offering cash rebates on models that are old, and in the case of the Tundra was never fully competitive even when it was new. HL is a 5-year-old model now, due to be replaced in about 4 months. Tundra is six years old, can you believe it? This is not a change in practice at Toyota - they have always done this at the end of the model cycle to clear out the old vehicles and make way for the new ones. The only deviation has been in the size of the rebates, and only in the case of the Tundra. $4000 is a very high rebate for Toyota. Once the Tundra turnover occurs, I am sure we will see similar rebate increases appear on the Sequoia, also a 5-year-old and also due for replacement late this year.
#102 of 2059 Re: Tundra is a Rental [chevy598]
Jan 09, 2007 (3:10 pm)
"Those radio buttons stick out like a sore thumb. Looks more like a spaceship than a pickup truck."
Those are the HVAC controls. And they are large so they can be operated with gloves on. Just like the large HVAC controls in the Silverado.
The biggest difference is that in the Tundra, the controls are a contrasting color (silver against a dark dash) vs. monotone in the Silverado.
#103 of 2059 Re: Tundra is a Rental [chevy598]
Jan 09, 2007 (3:25 pm)
"I don't care for that shifter on the floor. When I'm at work I throw tools & gloves on the center floor where Toyota's shifter is located. I think work trucks are more verstile with an empty space up front rather then a center counsel. This time the Chevy looks more like a Lexus than the Toyota does."
Hmmmm, the Chevy LTZ has a center console. The Tundra Limited has a center console.
The Chevy Silverado work trunk has an open floor and column shifter.....aaaaand, the Tundra SR5 has.....an open floor and column shifter.
#104 of 2059 Re: Tundra is a Rental [rorr]
Jan 09, 2007 (3:30 pm)
Dang Rorr, you beat me to it:)
From another site's write up on the San Antonion plant producing the tundra.
The Toyota Truck
31 model configurations
3 trim levels: DX, SR5, Limited
3 bed lengths, in: 66.7, 78.7, 97.6
3 cab configurations: Reg, Double, CrewMax
2 drivetrain options: 4x2, 4x4
3 engine options: 4.0L V-6, 4.7L V-8, 5.7L V-8
2 transmissions: 5-speed automatic; 6-speed automatic
3 wheelbases, in: 126.8, 145.7, 164.6
4 interior finishes: Sand Beige, Graphite, Black, Red Rock
2 dash choices: Stick shift center console, or Column shift worksite dash
11 exterior colors: Super White, Silver Sky Metallic, Slate Metallic, Black, Radiant Red, Salsa Red Pearl, Desert Sand Mica, Pyrite Mica, Timberland Mica, Blue Streak, Metallic, Nautical Blue Metallic
#105 of 2059 Re: Tundra is a Rental [rorr]
Jan 12, 2007 (7:40 am)
I think the new Tundra is WAY better looking than the ancient looking Chevy. The Interior is FAR better looking in the Tundra than the fake\cheap looking plastic wood in the Chevy. What was Chevy thinking?
The new Tundra will easily be the Truck of the Year next year. 381Hp and 401ft pounds of torque for the Toyota?
Toyota destroys the competition in everything it builds. I'd also take a Nissan before the Chevy. Way better looking and tows just as much.
My Choice for trucks would go like this.
1. Toyota Tundra
2. Nissan Titan
3. Ford F-150
4. Dodge Ram
At least the Ford and Dodge look decent. The Chevy looks like it could be from 1995 much less 2007. Truck of the year my butt. The interior of the Chevy is a complete joke with all that fake wood. It looks pathetic.
Jan 12, 2007 (9:07 am)
There were some comments earlier about making excess vehicles and Toyota being able to sell every '07 Tundra, etc. When people make these statements I want to know if they consider the generous incentives Toyota offers at the DEALER level on trucks and SUVs. Last time I checked, manufacturers that have strong demand for vehicles dont discount them by thousands of dollars. Toyota dealers are offering THOUSANDS of dollars of cash on the hood of Tundras, 4runners, Highlanders, Siennas, etc. in my area and I suspect this is true nationwide. To me, this is not differnt from GM relying on red tag sales to drive volume. It seems to be that Toyota is picking up where GM left off in terms of gaining share at any cost.
Looking at Toyota's operating income, they have incentives and other costs under control. Comparing Toyota to the domestics in this regard is a joke. Domestic incentives outpace Toyota's 3-to-1!
Dealer cash is just step one in the incentive ladder. The domestics are stuck at Defcon 4!
Toyota doesn't need to give away vehicles like the domestics do. So don't even bring it up.
You seem interested in bashing the current Tundra, even though it SURPASSES sales expectations? If the truck was really a problem, it wouldn't sell, regardless of the deal, or it would show just how weak the domestics are here. You can't have it both ways.
If Toyota can maintain consistent sales for a 5 year old truck, what will the newest, strongest truck on the market do?
#107 of 2059 Looks like the 2007 Tundra has made at least two sales already!
Jan 12, 2007 (9:14 am)
With Lutz, and now Piech of VW making a very public once over of the Tundra, the word for today is influence!
Personally, I think it is a bad PR move for the leader of the company to publicly ogle another makers vehicle. Just buy a copy next month, then tear it apart secretly.
#108 of 2059 Re: Tundra is a Rental [chevy598]
Jan 12, 2007 (4:45 pm)
I drove all 5 last week. The two best are the Tundra and the Silverado. The others are lacking lets say primarily in performance.
The Silverado is much more traditional and even upscale in the interior look. The Tundra as with a lot of the new Toyota designs from California ( Calty Design in Newport Beach ) is edgier. Toyota is taking more risks in it's designs.
The interiors of the two vehicles are intentionally different. The Silverado has small well designed buttons that fit closely together such as you'd find in an upscale sedan. The Tundra has BIG buttons and knobs such as you'd find in an industrial setting. Both designs are intentional. Whether one or the other succeeds is up to the market. In fact both might succeed.
Alternate viewpoint: This first big work truck from Toyota is designed to fit into a work environment. Being refined inside is not so critical as being capable at work. At a goal of 'only' 200K units it's more important to be solid and basic shooting for the center of the market. At some time down the road, say in 5-10 years when it's fully accepted, then a Lexus look can be added. Too much refinement now might make it appear too 'foo-foo'.
Sounds like a truck to me.
#109 of 2059 Re: Sales 
Jan 12, 2007 (4:54 pm)
I would also like to get the opinion of the GM detractors on hybrids. GM is fully committed to hybrids while Toyota remains the only foreign company to appear serious about hybrids. Honda is dumping the Accord hybrid and will offer only two models in the future. Nissan only has one and will sell it in 8 states. Hardly a hug commitment to saving fuel if you ask me. Since people generally believe that domestic automakers are committed to guzzling foreign oil while the Japanese love the earth I think the level of commitment to fuel saving technology is interesting.
I am in no way a GM detractor. I am critical of bad decisions that result in bad policies or bad vehicles. I think GM has jumped right up behind Toyota in the hybrid vehicle race..... providing ... providing the new 2-mode vehicles do what they say they can and that the vehicles remain well made in 3-7 years.
Ford is ailing and has very little money to do anything dramatic except survive for the next two years. R&D money for new technologies is scarce I believe.
Chrysler/Dodge and unfortunately Jeep I see as being on a death watch. Money is scarcer yet and the parent company is going in the diesel direction.
Honda is the only other real hybrid player and it's split between small hybrid vehicles and diesel midsized vehicles.
I wouldn't be surprised if Toyota and GM, with their established relationship, are coordinating their efforts in order to promote hybrids in NA.