Last post on Mar 29, 2007 at 5:33 AM
You are in the Toyota Tundra
What is this discussion about?
Toyota Tundra, Chevrolet Silverado 1500, Truck
#791 of 2059 Re: Get the facts straight [pmusce]
Feb 23, 2007 (4:09 pm)
Well, some clarification:
First, I'd like to see the links; particularly the link indicating that Toyota Import sales grew 37% in ONE YEAR. Since Toyota sales in the U.S. were up 'only' 12% for 2006 over 2005, I'm at a loss trying to figure out how the # of vehicles they imported grew by 37%? The only way for this to happen would be if the # of vehicles they produced domestically went DOWN; yet they expanded their U.S. operations in 2006. Something doesn't add up with your figures.....
Second, usually Automotive News deals with DOMESTIC production, and not US production (Domestic includes Candian). So, are those really U.S. production numbers or simply North American production numbers?
Third, I don't think anyone is debating that GM produces more cars and trucks in the U.S. than Toyota. So if the entire meat of your argument is that Toyota doesn't employ as many Americans as GM then, YES, you are absolutely 100% correct. Yip yip yip yahoo.....guess what, we don't employ as many farmers now as we did in 1900 either. Is that necessarily bad for the U.S.?
Speaking personally, I'll still try to correct as many erroneous statements of 'fact' as I can on this subject. And when someone presents a 'fact' that Tundra truck beds are built in Mexico (and this would be 'bad'? Better check the country of manufacturer for that Avalanche....) when, in FACT, the factory in Mexico produces truck beds for the Tacoma, then I'll call'em on it.
But this thread is about the Tundra vs. the Silverado. As such, perhaps we can discuss JUST the Tundra and the Silverado without diving into the 'import vs. domestic' cesspool.
Question: is the Silverado a better truck because of it's qualities as a TRUCK or because GM is headquartered in America? Is the Tundra an inferior truck because of it's qualities as a TRUCK or because Toyota is headquartered in Japan?
Don't bother answering; but GM better figure out pretty damn fast that what counts to more and more of the public is the intrinsic qualities of it's vehicles, and NOT what country GM has it's mailing address...
#792 of 2059 Re: . [anythngbutgm]
Feb 23, 2007 (5:47 pm)
I'd fire your friend the service manager.
#793 of 2059 Re: . [muskyfever]
Feb 23, 2007 (6:01 pm)
I really want a piece of the action. I will smoke your rice burner like a Swisher Sweet dipped in Kerosene with a Sierra Denali You won't be LMAO, after pull out a box of puffs.
#794 of 2059 Re: . [maple2]
Feb 23, 2007 (6:02 pm)
maple, good catch pal.
#795 of 2059 Re: silverado vs tundra [bjs1997]
Feb 23, 2007 (6:08 pm)
First off youv'e never driven a Tundra, IMO it looks 10x better than the Silverado, the Silverado only looks good in picture, but in reality it's all plastic. Oh and your incorrect, the Tundra is not only built in America but it has American parts in it. The interior in this truck is also good. You've just never seen it in person. I like the Silverado too, I like all full size pickups I don't care of the brand or anything like that all I care about is quality.
It's like the saying never judge a book by it's cover, and right now your judging the Tundra for what is looks on paper.
#796 of 2059 let's talk traction, not trash
Feb 23, 2007 (6:18 pm)
Let’s talk about traction and not trash, for a change.
There are basically three types of differentials: open, limited slip, and locking.
With an ‘open’ differential, in a poor traction situation 100% of the power goes to the wheel with the LEAST traction and only one wheel will spin. Unfortunately, the wheel with the most traction will get no power. The result is that you can easily get stuck. In reality, a 4WD with two open differentials is actually only a 2WD - one front wheel and one rear wheel.
The second type of rear differential, ‘limited slip’, is just what it says. When the wheel with the least traction spins, a set of little clutches inside the differential housing tighten up and engage, sending partial power to the wheel with the most traction. The amount of power going to that wheel varies with the system, but it probably averages around 50% or maybe less, depending on the condition of those little clutches. So, the result in a poor traction situation (mud, ice, a slippery boat ramp) is that the wheel with the LEAST traction spins and the wheel with the most traction gets SOME power. It’s better than an ‘open’ differential, but still not an optimal situation. Plus, as the vehicle gets older, those little clutches wear just like brake pads or a manual transmission clutch disc. (After all, they’re not very big – they have to fit inside the differential housing along with all the other stuff like the ring and pinion gears, spider gears, axle shafts, etc.) As the clutches wear out, less and less power is able to go to the wheel with the most traction. The traction when the vehicle is new is the best it will ever be because of the clutch wear. In reality, a 4WD with rear limited slip and an open front diff is a 2-1/2 WD when new, and becoming less over time.
The ‘locking’ differential is superior. When a wheel spins due to loss of traction, it sends 100% power to both wheels regardless of which wheel has the most traction. It uses a robust set of gears inside, not little clutches that wear out. So, it offers the best traction and it doesn’t diminish with time like a ‘limited slip’ differential. The 4WD with a rear locker and an open front diff is really a 3WD, and stays that way forever.
With a 2WD, subtract 1 from each of the above figures.
Limited slip and lockers are used almost exclusively in rear differentials. They can be used in the front, but they make steering the vehicle a bit dicey. The driver has to pay constant attention so that the steering wheel is not jerked out of his hands. With a front locker it helps to have strong hands and forearms. People who go ‘rock crawling’ sometimes put lockers up front. For the rest of us it’s not needed.
So let’s recap:
Lockers are the best and the most durable.
Limited slip is second best, offering some improvement in traction over the ‘open’ differential, esp. when the vehicle is new. But it’s a distant second best compared to a locker. Open is the least effective.
BTW, I’ve run out of traction MANY times while offroading. I’ve often been in situations where I thought “Dang, I wish I had a locker here.” This occurs frequently in deep snow, or muddy conditions on side slopes. The downhill rut is full of soft mud, but the uphill rut is drier with somewhat better traction. With open differentials both downhill wheels, front and rear, just spin. There is a solution – it’s called MOMENTUM. Take a running start and pray. But this is rough on equipment, people, and gear, especially if there are any bumps in the trail. Stuff just goes flying. I don’t like my scoped rifles flying about inside the truck. With a locker, you can go slowly, while keeping your stuff inside the truck bed and people in their seats. With limited slip, you might get through. The operable word here is ‘might’. Fractional power is better than none, after all.
There is a downside to lockers, however. Sometimes, you won’t even need to shift into 4WD while those without lockers will need 4WD. Then, when the going gets really rough you will shift into 4WD and keep on going, while those without lockers will come to a stop. This can make them angry and jealous, and you will have to live with that on your conscience. Don’t say I didn’t warn you.
The Silverado offers the locker in some configurations such as the Z71 Off Road package and Tow Max package. I have not driven the Tundra, but it is my understanding that the Tundra offers limited slip, but does not offer a locker at any price. I’ve also read that even the Tacoma mini-truck offers a locker as an option. Is that true? Even the Titan offers a locker.
I’ll bet Tundra will eventually offer a locker if they want to become competitive. What’s the point of having a lot of power if you can’t get it to the ground where it belongs?
#797 of 2059 Re: silverado vs tundra [iqbaldhillon2]
Feb 23, 2007 (6:23 pm)
Silverado only looks good in picture, but in reality it's all plastic
The GM's do NOT have any more (or less) plastic than Toyota or any other brand. Let's get real here, it's not 1969 anymore.
How anyone can criticize the looks of either the Silverado or the Sierra is beyond me. They are both awesome looking trucks. The Toyota looks just like every other plain looking Toyota ever built. Don't the Japanese believe in body lines or what?
Oh, and everyone (most anyway) on here that are praising the Tundra are doing so based on "paper" since it is brand new and most are going by paper specs and pics. How many have actually driven one?
The interior in the Tundra is cheap looking and the layout is goofy. The center dash controls are closer to the passenger than the driver??? What's with the silver? Trying to look "Hi-Tech" or something? Hi-tech belongs under the skin, classy belongs in the interior.
Oh and BTW, where is Toyota's AutoTrac 4wd? That is an awesome feature that came out in the GMs 8 years ago.
#798 of 2059 TUNDRA is a "SOCCER MOM" truck
Feb 23, 2007 (6:25 pm)
The Tundra is coming off as a "sissy" looking truck.
However, it will sell MANY copies because it's QUALITY will be 10 times better than the shoddy GM, Dodge and Ford workmanship and parts-spec. I do NOT feel sorry for GM, Ford or Chrysler for the situation (declining sales) that they are now in. Had they not made CRAP, they wouldn't see Toyota staring at them through double barrels. Japanese auto makers are providing a HUGE NUMBER of North American jobs. BRAVO.
Hello Soccer Mom Tundra; goodbye Dodge Shoddy Quality Ram and goodbye shoddy quality GMC/Chevy clone junksters. I'll bet the great selling Tundra will be offered in champaign and pink colors for the MOMS out there who will be driving their kids to soccer games. Later, they will be pulling Chevies (which have quit running due to shoddy parts quality) off the berm. Then, the Chevy owners can go to their Jap dealer to order a superior sissy truck from Toyota: Sissified ?? yep. Quality ? THE BEST> RELIABLE ?? The best that the world can make. TOYOTA = RELIABLE. CHEVY = VIBRATION and OIL LEAKS.
#799 of 2059 Re: let's talk traction, not trash [1offroader]
Feb 23, 2007 (6:31 pm)
Great post 1offroader...I tried making my traction point earlier...well said.
But the Toyota doesn't have the "4 sec closed loop delay"...woohoo...big deal!!!
#800 of 2059 Re: TUNDRA is a "SOCCER MOM" truck [frieberg44]
Feb 23, 2007 (6:34 pm)
Most uninformed and idiotic post yet. Get a clue!!