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Pickups Toyota Tundra Toyota Tundra vs. Chevrolet Silverado 
2059 messages, Last post on Mar 29, 2007 at 5:33 AM
You are in the Toyota Tundra Forum. Your Host is kcram
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Mar 28, 2007 5:29 pm) Do some research first. Hint: ALSD Do you prefer to be possibly injured slightly more, somewhere from 1% to 19%, in a frontal collision? OR Do you prefer to be possibly more dead in a rollover or side crash because there are no Side and Curtain airbags or Stability Control on your T900? Forget the T800's. Your argument has holes. You can get stability control and full side curtain airbags (they are one in the GMT900's. Look it up) in the GMT900's. It's called choice and its available. It's not free in the Tundra as the feature is part of the higher MSRP the Tundra has against the lower end GMT900's. You can't get 5 start crash ratings on any Tundra. Amazing that you seem to argue how important safety features are yet you have no problem overlooking the fact that Toyota built a brand new truck and failed to get 5 star crash ratings.
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Replying to: 1offroader (Mar 28, 2007 6:33 pm) It reminds me of those commercials for the "little giant" ladders where they explain that the ladder is "fully boxed" and show that a normal "c" channel ladder has a lot of flex in it and isn't as strong. But you know why they can show it flex? Because the guy "bending" the c-channel frame is doing it when there are NO cross-members on it!! Do they ever show the guy doing that with a regular ladder? Of course not, because they CAN'T do it!! The guy across the street from me drives Silverado 2500HD diesel trucks and he has about 6 different ladders on his truck frame... not a one is "fully boxed". The advantages are slim if anything at all and until somebody can post some massive problem showing that the c-channel frames are falling apart at the seams, I don't see this as something that is a good argument for the Silverado. The Tundra is fully boxed up front, has double or triple reinforced c-channel under the cab and an open c channel under the bed. It has been noted that having a c channel reduces NVH by almost every auto manufacturer -- cars use it because if the public was subjected to FBF frames in their cars they would be bounced all over the road! The ride is rough on it and is over-kill for its application. If vehicles that can tow 3 to 5 times as much as these 1/2 ton trailers don't use it and if cement trucks don't use it and if virtually every big rig and trailer doesn't use it, of what real "benefit" is it other than marketing hype? I don't see any construction guys using the "little giant" ladders anywhere. I've yet to see even see one of them in any construction site. It doesn't matter if they say it can hold 1200 lbs -- no 1200 lb guy is going to be climing a ladder to do anything useful and of what benefit does having 3 people on a 4 foot long ladder provide? Same thing with the trucks here. So the Chevy has a FBF frame. Nobody is claiming it is bad, but it has yet to be proven in terms of offering real benefits. Oh, and sorry for not claiming you are jreagan. He does conveniently have many aliases because he is unable to leave this forum and actually thinks that all of his aliases (now using them interchangably) is actually fooling any of us.
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Replying to: dreasdad (Mar 28, 2007 5:40 pm) Oh really? Can you name me any other top people outside of Jim Press? How has Toyota been taxed twice? How is Toyota held back from selling cars at every turn? The US market is the most open car market in the world. If you want to see a closed market, look at Japan. Import sales in Japan or minuscule and make up a smaller percentage of total sales than any other market. Even companies like BMW and Mercedes have a hard time selling vehicles in Japan. |
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Replying to: pmusce (Mar 29, 2007 3:25 am) Yes, 4-star rating on NHTSA's frontal crash has been noted and of course disappointing, but again, it accounts for 2% of accidents. And of that 2%, the actual opposing vehicle will need to weigh as much for the damage to occur, which, in any heavy vehicle gets a less likely probability the higher the weight (as there are not as many heavy trucks/suvs as there are cars). All that is being said is lets wait for actual IIHS test results on the other 98% of accidents that will happen (off-set front, rear, side, and rollover collisions). The reason being is that if Toyota gets poor marks for that, then you'll have a good case. However, if the Tundra does well and the Silverado does not, then you're in a much bigger predicament. That will more heavily impact this argument as there is no debate --even with government statistics as the source -- as to what is more representative of the vast majority of accidents. When those numbers come in, I'm sure the debate on safety will be given new life.
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Replying to: belias (Mar 29, 2007 3:32 am)
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Replying to: belias (Mar 29, 2007 3:40 am) BS!!! Only difference is in the terminology. Look at the area of protection, it's the same. Do the Tundra's side airbags sense a rollover vs a side impact and stay inflated longer (up to 6 secs) to prevent post-contact injury or ejection upon rollover? I didn't think so. The rest of this post is just plain old-fashioned DENIAL!!! I can hardly wait for the next set of results so we can watch you wriggle out of that one.
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Replying to: blckislandguy (Mar 28, 2007 6:29 pm) |
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Replying to: erich1965 (Mar 29, 2007 3:45 am) The point is that even if the FBF can be proven to be "better" in this application, you have to show somehow what benefit "better" provides. So far, you claim torsional rigidity (which as the example that an ME engineer provided isn't necessarily the case anyway), but that hasn't led to anybody being able to show that it provides a better ride, better handling, better control. The only thing that has been pointed out is that it may help prevent squeaks and rattles. But even that needs time to prove. A lot of these arguments you and others have made here have been in the form of things that are either promised to happen in the future (added air bags, power, transmission, etc.) or can not be proven yet. Not one single poster here has been able to show me a vehicle with an open c-channel frame that has somehow either broken, rusted, or damage, or somehow caused serious injury, inconvenience or just plain incapable of doing the job that a FBF framed vehicle has. This has been argued for the last 1000 posts and still not even one example. Give your argument some meat and maybe it will stand, but right now just saying it is better without showing how it is better doesn't provide this claim with any real-life benefits... that is what we want to see.
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Replying to: erich1965 (Mar 29, 2007 3:47 am) Yes in fact, they do sense rollovers and side-impact and stay inflated longer (though they don't say for how long). And in case you didn't notice 6 airbags vs 4 airbags is not a difference in "terminology". See, that is what we call mathematics. Let me break this down real simple for you because I think that this has been confused for you since you started here with a dozen different aliases all floating around in your head. Here we go... Silverado air bags: - 2 front air bags come standard - 2 side CURTAIN air bags are optional on some models (side curtain air bags only protect the heads) Tundra air bags: - 2 front air bags come standard - 2 side CURTAIN air bags come standard - 2 side air bags (for your TORSO) come standard Now, lets add this up shall we? Silverado: standard=2, with options=4 Tundra: standard=6, with options=6 So, just "standard" configurations mean that the Tundra has 4 more airbags or, let me put in terms that the GM guys here can understand... the Tundra has THREE TIMES THE AIR BAGS THAT THE SILVERADO DOES!!! I used the caps because apparently GM loyalists like pointing things out like that -- the extra emphasis seems to give more credibility  . With options, the Tundra STILL has 2 more airbags and considerably more coverage and protection.
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Replying to: andy82471 (Mar 28, 2007 6:31 pm) GM stands the best chance of coming out of this alive for sure, but it is obvious that at least the number of vehicles/brands from the Detroit3 are going to have to be severely consolidated. Forget about Toyota being a threat; they're just plugging along taking marketshare slowly. What the Detroit3 should be worried about is China. Not only are a significant (and ever increasing) amount of parts suppliers sourcing from China, but the introduction of their own vehicles may take away a good amount of the Detroit3's international sales. That only amplifies the squeeze their currently feeling at home... Trucks are going to be an ever-increasing part of their dependence on revenue as more and more of their cars are being displaced by yet more auto dealers. |
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