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Pickups Toyota Tundra Toyota Tundra vs. Chevrolet Silverado 
2059 messages, Last post on Mar 29, 2007 at 5:33 AM
You are in the Toyota Tundra Forum. Your Host is kcram
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Replying to: erich1965 (Mar 28, 2007 8:08 am)
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Replying to: belias (Mar 28, 2007 8:22 am) Still waiting for the defense of the chincy stamped, bolted in crossmembers too. You all seem to avoid this part of this discussion. Why?
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Replying to: erich1965 (Mar 28, 2007 8:33 am)  Don't worry jreagan, glad to have you back! Just out of curiosity though, why do you care about the frame so much? Did you have problems with your previous vehicles due to poor frames? Did you have a frame break, crack or rust up?
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Replying to: belias (Mar 28, 2007 8:37 am) Nope, never had a problem with frames, just pointing out that the GM's is superior and you Toyota people just cannot accept ANYTHING being better then the Tundra's, no matter how obvious it is.
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Replying to: erich1965 (Mar 28, 2007 5:54 am) Yes the FBF's might be stronger, I'll grant that, depending on design, steel thickness, steel grade of course. Still with this presumably stronger frame what does a truck owner gain? OK it's stronger......and..? No T900 2WD can tow as much as a Tundra 5.7L and most 4WD's are at best equal. One F150 configuration with the FBF can slightly out-tow a Tundra but the rest of the line is way below the Toyota's capability. No Dodge Hemi Ram can out-tow any Tundra and most payload on any Ram are far below the Tundra. None of the others in the class are as quick whether unburdened or carrying or towing. There is no single measurable benefit. The fact that the FBF is likely stronger is a feature....but where's the benefit. Regarding the frame construction I can't comment since I am not privvy to any of the engineering data. Unless you are a mechanical engineer in the auto design area I guess we'll have to say that time will tell. Durability has never been a problem with the modern Toyota's. In fact it's reputation is quite the opposite. They get the benefit of the doubt. I'm also sure that the T900's will pass the test of time also.
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Mar 28, 2007 8:44 am) Lighter!!! Which equates to better fuel economy. Torsionally Stiffer!!! Which equates to better ride and handling since the suspension can now behave as it was designed to behave. Got it? or are you going to keep asking? Doesn't take an ME to know that welded construction on a frame is superior to bolts, especially when the bolts are subjected to constant vibration, torsion, etc, etc. Well, maybe it does require some engineering background to understand this. I agree most salespeople wouldn't understand it. They get the benefit of the doubt. From YOU!! Speak for yourself.
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Replying to: erich1965 (Mar 28, 2007 8:44 am) You're the easiest person to track man! And yeah, I guess somebody with "common sense" will know better than engineers -- especially when they're talking engineering. Gimme a break!
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Replying to: belias (Mar 28, 2007 9:00 am) And nice twist on my common sense comment btw. So, your saying Toyota's engineers are better than GM's engineers because they used a boxed frame? What are you saying here? Mr Eagan JR. aka Eric
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Replying to: erich1965 (Mar 28, 2007 8:54 am) Torsionally Stiffer!!! Which equates to better ride and handling since the suspension can now behave as it was designed to behave. Got it? or are you going to keep asking? BTW, I don't know if you're jreagan under a 5th alias but you sure do write like him. Time will tell if you go off the deepend in anger. Ok, I will grant that somehow, in your opinion, the FBF's have more steel in them and yet are lighter  ??? This would definitely equate to better fuel economy but, I'm going to trap you so be prepared, the FBF offers no advantage over the Tundra's TripleTech frame because the differences are nominal at best. And most of the benefit GM receives is from it's AFM ( 5% ). However to compare apples with apples.. the 5.3L ( w/FBF ) has slightly better FE than the 5.7L but.. the 5.7L has slightly better FE than the 6.0L ( w/FBF ) so.. the FBF offers what benefit exactly? The 5.7L is a much better package than any of the 5.3L packages. The 5.7L and the 6.0L are roughly equivalent - unless GM drops the 4 sec TM delay into the equation. Then the 6.0L is only slightly better than the 5.3L. You still haven't shown me one measurable benefit to the FBF. I've done the research. There isn't any.
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Replying to: erich1965 (Mar 28, 2007 9:10 am) The fact that you claim that looking at the frame at an autoshow and claim that this gives you more credibility than a mechanical engineer that is actually in the business just shows how ignorant your claim is. At the very least you should be educated about it if you're going to make claims otherwise. Everyone here has agreed that everything being equal, a FBF is stronger. But we don't know that everything is equal, nor do we know how that even translates into any real benefit for the driver. It is obvious from larger vehicles that an open C channel is incredibly strong, durable, and cheap to produce. Those trucks can tow and load up amounts that are many times more than any of these trucks. So, in what sense does the FBF give any kind of advantage? You've claimed weight but can't give frame-weight numbers for either truck. You've claimed rigidity but can't give gauge calculations of either of the frames, or what their respective rigidity tolerances are. Even Ford hasn't done any testing on this yet (though they have on previous models) and one would think that if this was a "major" sticking point for the Detroit3, that they would start putting out numbers in that regard. They haven't and your claims can't be supported materially even by someone that is in the field. So, at best, you can raise some doubt, but there isn't proof of any lack in capability/performance/strength on the side of the Tundra.
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