Last post on Mar 29, 2007 at 5:33 AM
You are in the Toyota Tundra
What is this discussion about?
Toyota Tundra, Chevrolet Silverado 1500, Truck
#1868 of 2059 Re: GM fans rejoice! [drfill]
Mar 20, 2007 (9:12 am)
"I wouldn't consider a 4-star test a "weakness", any more than you would consider 10k towing in a Silverado a "weakness". It's a small victory for the domestics, but the IIHS is a tougher test, and I will wait for the other shoe to drop before making any conclusions."
Why don't you consider it a weakness when all the major competition is 5-stars? As for towing, a 2500 HD Silverado with the 6.0 V8 will tow more than Tundra (up to 12,900 lbs), so you are right, I don't consider it a weakness. The 2500 HD Silverado's equipped with the 6.0 V8 have a 6-speed automatic as well. This is the kind of truck anyone should use to tow a 10,000 pound trailer.
"Even when Ford, GM, and Dodge bring more power, do you think they can be that much quicker than 6.0 to 60 MPH? It's hard just to get that much power down for a empty truck! The Tundra powertrain will be competitive, even 3-4 years from now, it is that good."
Your statement is correct. The point I was trying to make is Toyota is pushing the power/towing numbers card with this truck hard and that advantage will disappear very soon. They better start working on other areas of their truck (crash test results, panel gaps, interior quality, HD versions, Diesels, etc) because they are not the leader (or not even a player) in these areas. As well, I don't know if Toyota is planning a hybrid version of the Tundra, but their will be a dual mode hybrid Silverado in 2009 model year.
#1869 of 2059 Re: NEW TUNDRA A SALES FLOP ????? [geo9]
Mar 20, 2007 (9:23 am)
You might want to re-check those numbers... 07 Tundras weren't even available for January, so whatever sales numbers were quoted there were likely for the 06 models. It is just too early to tell how sales are going for the Tundra yet since demand is outstripping supply and dealers still aren't stocked with the trucks. Heck the CM has barely arrived at some dealerships. I'd wait until at least June or July to see any kind of real numbers with consistancy.
As for the Silverado, yes, they should be very happy with their sales numbers! But it has been available at dealerships almost 6 months earlier than the Tundra so it is being produced in sufficient numbers to meet demand. Again, it is interesting to see in particular that the Silverado eclipsed the F150 for sales in February for the first time. I'm sure Ford isn't too happy with that!!
#1870 of 2059 That's a tough sell
Mar 20, 2007 (9:25 am)
GM guys WANT the Tundra to be considered low quality, and NOW panel gaps are important.
Toyota, and the Tundra, will get the benefit of the doubt on quality.
Nobody cared about panel gaps for the last 50 years. Now it's an issue when GM finally tries to build the truck right? I'm not saying the GM isn't built well, but selling the GM as better-built is a joke.
Do I have to buy a 2500 to outdo a Tundra? Is that what you're saying?
#1871 of 2059 Re: NEW TUNDRA A SALES FLOP ????? [belias]
Mar 20, 2007 (10:23 am)
MORE bafflegab huh guys???????????????
Funny, There are plenty of 07 tundras on the lot here
in the Syracuse NY area !!!!!!!!! Dealers are even
So what if they only became avail. in January?
Sales in Feb. when they WERE avail. are still down from
last year ! Unlike GMs JAN. truck sales that are up 24% or so.
Not to mention this figure is only 1/2 tons as the 3/4
tons were also introduced in Jan. 07 and dealer stock is
It don't look like the tundra is gonna be that sales hit
all the NON owners and salesfolks imagined it would be!
#1872 of 2059 Re: That's a tough sell [drfill]
Mar 20, 2007 (10:24 am)
So NOW the frontal crash tests don't matter huh????
#1873 of 2059 Re: NEW TUNDRA A SALES FLOP ????? [geo9]
Mar 20, 2007 (10:46 am)
Take it easy man... we're just discussing the trucks... If you want to base your decision based on 1.5 months of sales of a product that has yet to meet demand, by all means, that is your decision to make. Taking a sample of one dealership and making a complete industry-wide generalization about it is just not using good judgement (nor statistics either).
Yes, the Tundra is being discounted, but that is on regular cab models only. The Silverado is being discounted on every model and is including all kinds of incentives as well. What does that prove? The bigger the discount the worse the vehicle? If that's the case you've already lost the argument.
But, in case you haven't noticed, Toyota dealerships are not "stocked" with Tundras. Many of them are lucky to have even 4 models in inventory. It isn't like going to a Chevy dealer and seeing 50 to 100 Silverados lined up in a row. They are producing them as fast as they can. Right now one of the problems is that the delivery trucks have to be recalibrated to accept Tundras on the lower levels. They currently can only take 3 Tundras on the top level. So, when you start seeing 50 Tundras on dealership lots, go ahead and make the claim that they are not selling. That would give you more clout. Right now you're not making any credible case. I can argue that new 07 Denali sales are below last year's numbers because they are not even out yet. What the heck does that prove? That the Denali is not going to be the big "sales" leader in luxury trucks that GMC expected it to be? Gimme a break... relax, take a deep breath, and make your case in a few months when plenty of trucks are available...
#1874 of 2059 Re: NEW TUNDRA A SALES FLOP ????? [belias]
Mar 20, 2007 (11:52 am)
GOLLY ............MORE bafflegab from the non-owners?
Contrary to your post there are NOT 100s of new GM
trucks sitting on lots in my area!
How would I know? I AM A ACTUAL OWNER AND BUYER !
I am currently on the hunt for a new GMT-900 3/4 ton.
Since the 2500 GMs are in initial dealer buildup there
are few to choose from. They are not even listed on GM
Buypower yet so the only way to check dealer stock is to visit a dealer. And as always the dealers are all clustered together so its easy to see whats on the lot.
I have eyeballed the local yota dealers and there are
plenty of tundras to be had !
Still seems strange while GM fullsize trucks last month
are up 24% according to a report at pickuptruck.com while
toyota is down in truck sales.
The figures over at aicautosite.com don't lie...........
These initial sales figures for toyota bode plenty of woe
ahead as far as increased market share in the fullsize
But you are right as far as time will tell !!!!!!!
#1875 of 2059 Re: Toyota comes up short [belias]
Mar 20, 2007 (1:13 pm)
I read it on autoblog last week.
Nissan has totally scrapped plans for their 2010 HD truckline with the Navistar International diesel, the same one Ford gets.
#1876 of 2059 Re: Toyota comes up short [kdhspyder]
Mar 20, 2007 (2:13 pm)
All four statement are more than just opinion, they are what people are saying as far as what I am reading from more than one evaluator.
I have seen/heard more than one auto tester mention the frame problem and the interior being of sub-par.
The #5 thing I didn't mention but is well recognized is the poor looks. This is not a eye pleasing truck for sure.
#1877 of 2059 Re: NEW TUNDRA A SALES FLOP ????? [geo9]
Mar 20, 2007 (2:57 pm)
In case you haven't noticed, nobody is talking about 3/4 ton trucks here. The fact that they are in short supply doesn't matter here. I can say with all confidence that there are WAY more Silverados in stock than Tundras, just do an inventory search and you'll see what I'm talking about. It is no comparison... but Toyota will build up inventory as they ramp up manufacturing.
BTW, you don't need to "own" a truck to count them -- you seem stuck on that point. And I've had and driven all types of trucks and industrial equipment for work, more than most people here that "own" trucks. I've driven everything from grain trucks to tractors to regular 1/2 ton trucks as part of working for the city. I know what towing and hauling involves despite not being a current truck owner and towing dinky boats around claiming that you "know" about what a truck is. I've said it many times on this forum... real trucks are 1 ton trucks, maybe 3/4 ton if you want to be generous.
So, just hang on a bit and see how sales go for both vehicles.