Last post on Mar 29, 2007 at 5:33 AM
You are in the Toyota Tundra
What is this discussion about?
Toyota Tundra, Chevrolet Silverado 1500, Truck
#1461 of 2059 Re: Something else I noticed.... [rorr]
Mar 07, 2007 (11:58 am)
You say "To-may-to, I say "To-mah-to". Wannabe is just that...a "want to be", same meaning.
Does Chevy "want to be as" as good as the segment leader in midsize sedans? I should hope so, but that doesn't make the Impala a "wannabe" sedan, now does it.
I happen to own (wife's car) a 2004 Chev Impala (BTW, it is considered a full-size sedan) which I bought brand new in fall of 2004. How many times has it been recalled? 0, zilch, nada. How many warranty issues? 0, zilch, nada. How many times has it been in the shop for any reason whatsoever (exluding oil changes/tire rotations)? 0, zilch, nada. So, based on my experience so far, how can it not be at the top?
I agree, 20-25 years ago, GM and most domestic cars were junk, but that was then, this is now. My wife's 97 Lumina we drove from 97-2004 with NO problems either. Very good car. That makes me 5 for 5 with my modern era GM's. Can't get any better than that.
The Tundra has a LOOOOOOOONG way to go? In what way?
Sales, market loyalty, and IMO ruggedness (at least perceived ruggedness) Face it, they have their hands full trying to enter the American Full size truck market.
Afterall, what are the qualities of a good pickup? Durability/reliability? At this point, unproven.
Strength/towing/payload? In 1/2tons, I think the Tundra and Silverado about equal at the head of the class.
Comfort/usability? Each has their plusses and minuses; however, I think they are STILL both close to the head of their class.
Style - Entirely subjective. I like the Tundra. I think the Chevy looks plain. Obviously, you'll disagree. But these are PICKUPS fer cryin' out loud......
I agree with this for the most part...except the subjectiveness. ie: Tundra looks much "plainer" than the Silvy or Sierra. Where are the body lines? And nice Grille???
Also, why didn't Toyota lose the Tundra name since it is a completely new/different truck (size, not just styling). that would have addressed the "bias" issue you refer to. Right?
#1462 of 2059 Re: Something else I noticed.... [toykicks]
Mar 07, 2007 (11:58 am)
Believe it or not jreagan some people actually like using reg cab 1/2 tons for work.
Good for them.
#1463 of 2059 Re: Something else I noticed.... [rorr]
Mar 07, 2007 (12:22 pm)
"As far as I'm concerned, both of these trucks are essentially equal in virtually every MAJOR way. In fact, I think both of these (barring reliability issues) are head and shoulders above the 1/2 tons from Ford and Dodge. The only thing that tends to set my teeth on edge (as I'm sure some may have noticed) are comments that the Tundra is a "wannabe" truck. Personally, I think this reflects poorly on those making that statement since, by EVERY objective measurement, the new Tundra is a very capable truck."
I agree with this statement 100%. The Tundra is certainly not a "wannabe" truck. It is also not second coming of full size pickups. It is a very strong entry in the full size market. However, the GMT900's are still the 500 pound gorilla in this market with respect to market coverage, breadth of configurations, sales, and capability from 1/2 ton through to HD.
#1464 of 2059 Re: Something else I noticed.... [jreagan]
Mar 07, 2007 (12:26 pm)
Yes, I know your wife has an Impala, which is why I used that example. And GM themselves recognize (whether you do or not) that the segment leader is the Camry. So, by YOUR definition, if Toyota says they "wannabe" as good as the segment leader with the Tundra, why wouldn't it be fair to say that the Impala is also a "wannabe"? BTW - since the term isn't derogratory, why complain if I use it in reference to the Impala?
They have their hands full entering the full-size truck market? YES. Couldn't agree more. That's because (as I pointed out before) full-size truck buyers are a fiercely loyal lot.
Obviously, they aren't there in sales. Not sure about "market loyalty"; Toyota owners in general are more loyal than GM owners, but this applies to the company as a whole rather than just the full-size truck segments. Ruggedness? Well, as you pointed out, this is based mostly on perception. Toyota's problem is that they could be offering 400hp trucks that got 25mpg that maxed out at $32k completely dolled up, yet some folks would say they STILL had a "looooooong" way to go simply due to PREVIOUS sales numbers, "market loyalty" and "perceived" ruggedness.
Not gonna argue styling; as pointless this discussion already is, this would simply be more so. But you go right ahead.....
Why didn't Toyota lose the Tundra name? You COMPLETELY lost me on that one.....why didn't Chevy lose the Impala name since IT'S been completely revised a number of times? Do you think THAT would have addressed someones "bias" against old Impalas?
#1465 of 2059 Re: Something else I noticed.... [pmusce]
Mar 07, 2007 (12:28 pm)
But it's still "Butt-Spanking" ugly IMO. Looks like a Tacoma on steroids. Where's the originality? But that's good, because it'll make my Sierra all that much better looking on the road. Kinda like the fat, ugly girl in the bar makes the good lookin ones even better looking.
#1466 of 2059 Re: Something else I noticed.... [pmusce]
Mar 07, 2007 (12:30 pm)
"I agree with this statement 100%. The Tundra is certainly not a "wannabe" truck. It is also not second coming of full size pickups. It is a very strong entry in the full size market. However, the GMT900's are still the 500 pound gorilla in this market with respect to market coverage, breadth of configurations, sales, and capability from 1/2 ton through to HD."
Ah, common ground.
Yes, it's NOT the second coming.
Yes, it IS a strong entry in the market.
Yes, the GM's are the 500 pound gorilla.
Consider, before GM only had to worry about Ford and (to a lesser extent) Dodge. I think that with Toyota finally offering a TRUE strong entry in the segment, that it will only force GM to stay at the very top of their game.
And that is good for everybody.
#1467 of 2059 Re: Something else I noticed.... [toykicks]
Mar 07, 2007 (12:30 pm)
"Brakes are 13+inches and stop the heavier tundra as quick or quicker then the sierra/silverado."
I've seen this posted several times and its false. In both the Car and Driver and Motor Trend comparisons, Silverado outbraked the Tundra. There is alot more to breaking performance than the size.
#1468 of 2059 Re: Something else I noticed.... [jreagan]
Mar 07, 2007 (12:33 pm)
I've noticed on chevys site i cant get the silvy reg cab with the 6.0 or 5.3. I also noticed non of their regular cabs can tow above 8k and have a payload of less then 2k, and a gvwr of 6400 lbs vs. tundras 7200. these are long bed reg cabs. The tundra long bed regular cab with the 5.7 is rated to tow 10800 pounds and has a payload of 2000lbs+ one thing it lacks is the fuel tank. The tank is 26 gallons vs. 34 from GMs twins. Reg cabs are used most by construction companies so you get an idea who toyota is targeting .
#1469 of 2059 Re: Something else I noticed.... [pmusce]
Mar 07, 2007 (12:34 pm)
"As far as I'm concerned, both of these trucks are essentially equal in virtually every MAJOR way.
Equal? Who are you kidding. Try telling that to the Silver driver I dusted this morning. He wanted a second round and I blew him away again. He looked just like a kid that got pushed out of the swing. The new Tundra is fast, tough, and the women love it.
#1470 of 2059 Re: Something else I noticed.... [jreagan]
Mar 07, 2007 (12:34 pm)
"But it's still "Butt-Spanking" ugly IMO."
Here is jreagon arguing styling.
Here is the sound of one hand clapping.
Anyone notice a similarity?