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Pickups Toyota Tundra Toyota Tundra vs. Chevrolet Silverado 
2059 messages, Last post on Mar 29, 2007 at 5:33 AM
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Replying to: jreagan (Mar 02, 2007 2:48 pm) Re: DOHC vs. cam-in-block, Chevy has done A LOT of racing and has built SOHC and DOHC engines for the racing circuit. Their engineers have found that overall internal friction losses are LESS with the pushrod design, and the long term reliability of the timing belt/chain has always been an issue with the DOHC design, no matter who makes it. One of the reasons is that with most modern engines, when the timing chain/belt breaks the valves that are in the open position STAY open when the piston comes up either on the exhaust or compression stroke. The open valves then punch holes in the tops of the pistons and/or the valves get bent, ruining the entire top and bottom end of the motor. This isn't a problem if the belt never breaks, but requires a lot more attention to changing it regularly. Those are two reasons why the engineers feel the pushrod design is better for MOST applications. For extremely high-revving motors the DOHC has some advantages. Until now, the variable valve timing has also been the domain of the DOHC, but Chevy has now licked that technical hurdle and makes a VVT work with pushrods. Even in Chevy's top end motor, the big block Z06 (500+ hp), it is a pushrod design. Obviously, cost is not an issue with this world-class performance car, at least in terms of the minor cost difference between the two designs. If Chevy thought it was superior they would use it in the Z06 at least. As to the superiority of 6 bolt mains vs. 4 bolt, and 4 bolt vs. 2 bolt, well it's barely worth commenting on but I will anyway. All hi perf v-8s have at least 4 bolts, and only racing motors, until now, have had 6 (4 bolts + 2 cross bolts). The more, the better. Chevy has learned a lot from its many decades of racing experience. (BTW, I don't have the foggiest what the Tundra v-8 has: 2, 4, or 6, so can't comment on that issue.) 6 bolts are even better than 4 because it ties the opposite sides of the block together into a single rigid unit. It's much stiffer than even the 4 bolt design. To do this, the sides of the block ("skirts") must extend way down past the main bearing caps. On 'typical' v-8 engines, if you remove the sheet metal oil pan you can see part of the crank extending below the bottom edge of the block. With a deep skirt design, the oil pan is very shallow or maybe just a flat plate. When it is removed, you have to look up into the block to see the crank. Deep skirts were once the unique domain of hi-perf racing engines but Chevy has chosen to incorporate this design feature on some of its hi-end engines despite its add'l. cost and complexity. They wouldn't add this design feature and NOT use DOHC if they thought it was warranted. BTW, I've built hi-perf v-8s with 2 bolt mains - it can be done. But it was always an issue of limited budget, not what's best. If you've ever dropped a crank out the bottom of your car, you'll understand the advantage.  It's not an experience I would recommend. 1offroader
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Replying to: 1offroader (Mar 02, 2007 7:57 pm)
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Replying to: belias (Mar 02, 2007 6:26 pm) Did I say the Tundra was too big? No. I was just stating that the greater rear leg room comes at a cost of 6 more inches in length and smaller pickup bed of 3 inches. As for the deeper bed, the f-series also has a deeper bed like the Tundra. This is because the sides are higher on both these trucks. Sorry, but this is not an advantage, expecially for contractors who load and unload gear from the side of the truck. Its a common complaint of the f-series. There is no benefit to higher sides. |
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Replying to: belias (Mar 02, 2007 6:39 pm) Add 6 inches of cab room Take 3 inches out of the bed Add 6 inches to the length It took 9 inches to add 6 to the cab.
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Replying to: jreagan (Mar 02, 2007 8:05 pm) The pushrod design never has to worry about a broken timing belt/chain. It also is limited to 2 valves per cyl. (I believe 4 valve pushrod designs have been done but they were not very successful). Two valves are not as good for very hi revving engines (8,000+ rpm) due to less maximum airflow. Of course with the big block Chevy motors such as the Z06, the hp and torque are not made at those rpms - they have displacement on their side. For bang for the buck, NOTHING beats raw displacement. 1offroader
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Replying to: pmusce (Mar 02, 2007 8:10 pm) Bottom line: Toyota is "Fugly", Inside and out. Fast? yes, Powerful? Yes. Reliable? Remains to be seen. Better? Nope. Ugly? In every way possible. I have asked several times...Doesn't Toyota believe in body lines? And nice front end!!! haha. Oh, and don't get me started on that really stupid, ugly and poorly layed out interior. |
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Replying to: belias (Mar 02, 2007 9:19 am) "-more cup/thermos holders across the line" Have you been in each configuration of each vehicle and counted them? I’m not sure how many the tundra has, but I know the Silverado has one for each passenger, which seems reasonable. Are you seriously listing this as a benefit? "- much more advanced Navigation system (see audio/voice controls section and POI numbers, integration with other onboard systems)" This one is pretty vague. Care to explain what makes it more advanced? Here is what the Silverado Nav does: ‘The new Touch-Screen Navigation Radio,(1) available in LTZ Crew Cab models, helps ensure you have the right map at hand during your travels. And, unlike a paper map, this system can help you get back on track if you happen to make a wrong turn. Included is a 6.5-inch-diagonal, full-color touch-screen display with the ability to play a CD (or DVD when the available rear-seat entertainment system is ordered) and use the navigation DVD. Also featured is voice recognition with the ability to respond to up to 26 commands. • When the navigation disc is inserted and the address is entered, a route map is generated (accompanied by audio and/or text) that provides step-by-step instructions as well as points of interest, such as hotels and restaurants (if requested). • These commands tell drivers when to turn and alert them if they stray from the calculated route. • If a wrong turn is made, the system automatically recalculates a new route from the current position. The navigation radio lets drivers select between routes using either the shortest path or the one that utilizes major roads.’ "- rear child-door locks on the Tundra" Also available on Silverado "- standard side, side-curtain, and front air bags for Tundra where just the fronts are standard on the Chevy with the option to have side-curtains on some models (no sides available)." Silverado front airbags are Dual-stage air bags. They sense the severity of a crash and determine if the air bags should be deployed and whether a full or less-than-full amount of inflation will be used. The standard Passenger Sensing System automatically switches the right-front passenger front air bag on or off based on the passenger’s weight and the type of pressure on the seat. The Silverado’s Head-Curtain side impact is one integrated airbag that combines complete side-head coverage. Deployed upon sensing a rollover, these air bags cover the first and second rows of Crew and Extended Cab models, or the driver and outboard passenger of Regular Cab models. Plus, they are designed to stay inflated for up to six seconds to help reduce the risk of ejection in the unlikely event of a rollover. "- bigger brakes all the way around with 4-piston calipers up front Tundra. " Many things make up good braking performance. The Silverado beat the Tundra in braking in both C&D and Motor Trend comparisons. "- windshield wiper de-icer grid with timer for rapid defrosting of windshield on Tundra." The Silverado has heated windshield washer fluid. The system heats the fluid to 170 degrees Fahrenheit. Which one do you think will defrost ice faster? "- Vehicle Stability Control, Traction Control, ABS with EBD, and Brake Assist on Tundra as opposed to ABS and StabiliTrak on Silverado" The Silverado has all those features: All Silverado and Silverado HD models come equipped with a standard four-wheel antilock brake system (ABS) — a crash-avoidance feature that helps prevent wheel lockup during braking in most slippery road conditions. The brakes also include Dynamic Rear Proportioning, which regulates front and rear brake pressure to optimize performance under varying load conditions. StabiliTrak helps Silverado 1500 models surround you in 360 degrees of safety. This system helps improve vehicle stability, particularly during emergency maneuvers. The system, standard on Crew Cab models and available on select Extended Cab models, also includes Proactive Roll Avoidance, which reduces the risk of a rollover. Here’s how StabiliTrak works: • The StabiliTrak control module compares your steering input with the truck’s actual response and then, if necessary, makes small, individual brake applications to enhance control and keep you on track. • StabiliTrak automatically intervenes when it senses loss of lateral traction (sideslip), understeer (plowing) or oversteer (fishtailing). In these situations, the system applies brake pressure and, if necessary, adjusts engine torque to help the driver get the vehicle back on track. "- Information centers on Tundra contain more information then what is displayed on the Silverado" Such as? Here is what the Silverado Info Centre has: The standard DIC features an expanded array of alerts and a larger display window that shows two rows of characters. New pushbutton controls are located to the right of the gauge cluster for quick access to trip computer functions: • Trip/Fuel: Displays the odometer, trip odometer, fuel range, average economy, fuel used, timer, transmission temperature and Active Fuel Management™ indicator (if equipped) • Vehicle Information: Displays Silverado powertrain, security and chassis messages such as oil life, engine hours, engine hot or overheated, Tire Pressure Monitor, door or hood open, washer fluid and StabiliTrak on/off • Customization: Customize vehicle features to your preference, including language, remote door lock and unlock, exit and approach lighting, loudness of vehicle chimes, seat memory recall and remote start enable Set/Reset: Set or reset certain vehicle functions as well as acknowledge DIC messages "- Tundra has better performance in acceleration, handling, handling under load, and braking then the Silverado (as mentioned by performance numbers in virtually every comparison test). -Better power/torque numbers for the Tundra" I’ll give you acceleration for the 5.7 (although this will change in 2008 when the 6.2 becomes available in the Silverado). The 4.7 Tundra is a slug and is outdone by the 4.8/5.3 Silverado due to Silverado’s weight advantage. Handling and Handling under load are subjective and I’ve seen comparisons that have favoured both. Braking has been won by Silverado in both C&D and Motor Trend. I noticed you failed to mention ride? Every test I have read had given the ride advantage to Silverado. "- Towing payload numbers favor Tundra in various configurations by 2 to 1." Sorry I posted all the configurations a few days ago and it was a tossup. You are still assuming the Max Trailoring Package is not available on the Silverado which is false. "- More power points in Tundra then in the Silverado (3 or 4 to 2)" The Silverado has two on the dash and one in the centre console. You get a fourth with the available rear audio controls. |
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Replying to: 1offroader (Mar 02, 2007 8:15 pm) 1offroader |
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Replying to: jreagan (Mar 02, 2007 8:18 pm) 
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Replying to: jreagan (Mar 02, 2007 8:18 pm)
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