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Smart Shopper True Cost to Own (TCO) - Hidden Costs of Car Ownership
157 messages, Last post on Jul 09, 2009 at 3:57 AM
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Replying to: dave8697 (Jul 05, 2007 12:56 pm) My original, 20 yr old trans fluid in my '87 Astro is still doing fine so why mess with it? Good point. Transmission oil does not degrade as the coolant does, but I still do drains - not power flushes! - to renew it as per manufacturer manual. |
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I compared the Edmunds TCO data for both cars. Fallacy no 1: The Honda is $2200 more to buy and is worth $2500 more after 5 years yet costs $348 less over the 5 years to insure. How could the insurance companies not charge as much per insured dollar of car value, making the Honda higher cost to insure? Fallacy no 2: dividing fuel cost by today's local $2.93 price and dividing 75k mi by the gallons, the avg TCO assumed mileage is 33 mpg for an automatic Civic Coupe and 28 for an automatic G5 Coupe. This 5 mpg difference accounts for 60% of the 5 year TCO difference advantage of the Honda. I currently get 28 mpg average in my '96 Riviera that outweighs G5 by 600 lbs, has 161k miles on it and 225-16-60 tires and a 20 gallon tank. G5 can't beat the Riv with a 4 cyl, narrow tires, and a 13 gal tank? Yet Honda can use a 220 lb lower weight and 400 cc smaller engine advantage over G5 to get 5 mpg more average? Fallacy no 3: A 3 year old Civic Coupe with 15k mi left on the powertrain warranty and nothing left on the B to B warranty is resellable for $10,822 while a ONE year old G5 with 85k left on the powertrain warranty and only 15k total mi on it is only resellable for $85 more than the 3 year old Civic? What do you get, a k mi of warranty for each dollar more with the G5? So 'I can have one sixth of the warranty for an $85 savings buying the 3 year old Civic' has people jumping? This fallacy accounts for over 50% of the TCO advantage of the Civic. Fallacy no 4: In year 5, when only the G5 is still under warranty, the G5 maint and repair expenses are $29 per month more than those of the Civic, which is out of warranty and needs a new rubber timing belt (and water pump while your in there), typically to the tune of $7-800? Summary: Unlike Civic, G5 has a usable back seat and so much more equipment for the price. $15920 will get you ABS, Traction Control, auto trans, 148 HP, 152 ft-lbs T, power surfoof, 7 spkr Pioneer cd, power mirrors, power locks, remote keyless, power windows, DIC with ext. temp, A/C, radio on steer wheel controls, 16" rims, cruise control, tilt, cargo net, and a few more things. Most of this list is not found on a $15920 Civic. The 2991 curb weight is closer to the '04 Accord and not the '04 Sunfire, so don't pass it off as a Sunfire rebadge with all the early '90's baggage that implies for reliability.
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Replying to: dave8697 (Jul 08, 2007 12:04 pm) The G5 has no track record as it is a "New" Model for Pontiac. Pontiac also has all of the typical GM baggage to overcome. Honda does not have any of those problems. I liked my old Pontiac and it was a good car but there is a huge perception problem that all the GM brands have to over come. That perception problem was completely justified for all the junk cars they made over the years. They are better now but I don't think they are necessarily equal to Honda in every way. Also as for your first fallacy insurance companies use a lot more then dollar value to figure out their rates. The programs they use to figure out insurance rates take in hundreds of different variables.
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Replying to: british_rover (Jul 08, 2007 4:49 pm) In the 1980's, Honda was producing very good cars but people bought GM cars because they were loyal to that manufacturer. Now GM and Ford may be making great cars, but many of us have developed loyalty to the Japanese cars and that is what we intend to keep buying. The American manufacturers have lost a whole generation of car buyers. |
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Replying to: dave8697 (Jul 08, 2007 12:04 pm) So would Fallacy over original Fallacy 4 be Fallacy 4² ? Civic has not had the timing belt since the 2002 Civic Si. It has a timing chain. |
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Replying to: fwatson (May 02, 2002 12:32 pm) |
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The best car to buy in order to keep TCO down is a Honda Fit.
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I think that these $299 /mo lease ads you see are a scam. It can't cost less than $600/mo realistically for an A4.
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Replying to: wisemoney (Jun 04, 2008 4:12 pm) The fit is the modern Honda CRX. There is something to be said for the pleasure of driving. |
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