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True Cost to Own (TCO) - Hidden Costs of Car Ownership

160 messages,  Last post on Dec 31, 2009 at 12:08 AM

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Messages Page 14 of 16

#131 of 160 Re: Lose your car in 5.5 years [dave8697] by mikefm58

Jul 03, 2007 (11:34 am)

Replying to: dave8697 (Jul 03, 2007 10:10 am)
How can the G5 have almost $4000 of repairs and maintenance in just the 4th and 5th years of ownership while still under the 5 year, 100000 mile powertrain warranty and the lifetime or 100000 mile rust thru warranty, and just coming off the (dlr makes everything perfect at the end of the)3 yr bumper to bumper warranty?
 
I would really question that item. But I could see tires, brakes, a battery, and maybe one unexpected repair running a grand or more, but that's about it.

#132 of 160 Re: Lose your car in 5.5 years [mikefm58] by british_rover

Jul 03, 2007 (1:55 pm)

Replying to: mikefm58 (Jul 03, 2007 11:34 am)
Well the 5 year 100,000 mile warranty is a recent addition maybe the formula has not been modified to account for that yet.

#133 of 160 Re: Lose your car in 5.5 years [british_rover] by dave8697

Jul 03, 2007 (5:12 pm)

Replying to: british_rover (Jul 03, 2007 1:55 pm)
why not? 2007 is the first year of this car and the 100k warranty started with the 2007 models across the entire GM line, starting a full year ago.
 
Pontiac hasn't run the first TV commercial for the G5 yet and it already has it's 5th year repair bill average calculated.

#134 of 160 Re: Lose your car in 5.5 years [dave8697] by british_rover

Jul 03, 2007 (6:35 pm)

Replying to: dave8697 (Jul 03, 2007 5:12 pm)
Well the G5 is just the Cobalt with a different badge and the Cobalt, at least drivetrain wise, isn't any different from the last year caviler. As far as I remember from working on cobalts that even though the platform is new the engines from the Caviler were carry over.

#135 of 160 Re: Lose your car in 5.5 years [dave8697] by asafonov

Jul 05, 2007 (8:45 am)

Replying to: dave8697 (Jul 03, 2007 10:10 am)
I budget $150-200 a year in maint and repairs for each of my '96, '98, '98, '99 GM and Ford cars and much less for my '01 Chev. That includes tires and oil. I always spend less.
 
You may be right in your critique of the TCO on the G5, but if you spent less than $150-200 a year on cars that are from 5 to 12 years old, you have been very lucky. $150 covers what, 4 oil changes and a couple of rotations, and nothing else (trans drain, radiator flush, new wipers, new tires, new battery) - and nothing that ever breaks.

#136 of 160 Re: Lose your car in 5.5 years [british_rover] by dave8697

Jul 05, 2007 (1:39 pm)

Replying to: british_rover (Jul 03, 2007 6:35 pm)
G5 Engines are not carryover from Cavalier. The drivetrain is not the same as the last year Cavalier. The car weighs 360 lbs more and has 8 more HP from the base engine. The displacement is still 2.2 L but the engine was redesigned. The 173 HP supercharged optional engine was not available on the 2005 Cavalier either.
Still, with no customers having had to repair a Cobalt yet, the G5 repair is based on non existing data. All cobalts are still under the 3 year bumper to bumper warranty.

#137 of 160 Re: Lose your car in 5.5 years [asafonov] by dave8697

Jul 05, 2007 (1:56 pm)

Replying to: asafonov (Jul 05, 2007 8:45 am)
Spreading 50k mi / yr across 6 vehicles, some get driven 22k and some 4k, with the avg. of 5 lesser driven ones being about 6k/yr. The 22k/yr car is running a tiny bit over $222 a year due to 60 series tires it needs. Some of the others have needed nothing but oil changes in 2 years. Tire rotations are free and Oil changes are done by me. My original, 20 yr old trans fluid in my '87 Astro is still doing fine so why mess with it? I wouldn't expect myself to be taking a 40k mile, 3-4 yr old G5 to the Dealer and say "Here's $1375, give this thing a checkup even though it runs perfect" And then say "Here's another $900, fix something covered under warranty but charge me anyway". That is what Edmunds TCO shows for G5.

#138 of 160 Re: Lose your car in 5.5 years [dave8697] by asafonov

Jul 06, 2007 (8:48 am)

Replying to: dave8697 (Jul 05, 2007 1:56 pm)
As I wrote, I have no issue with your analysis of the (faulty) TCO estimate on the G5. That said, your vehicular situation (several older vehicles with mileage spread between them, DIY oil changes) is not very common.
 
My original, 20 yr old trans fluid in my '87 Astro is still doing fine so why mess with it?
 
Good point. Transmission oil does not degrade as the coolant does, but I still do drains - not power flushes! - to renew it as per manufacturer manual.

#139 of 160 Comparing Civic Coupe to G5 Coupe by dave8697

Jul 08, 2007 (1:04 pm)

I compared the Edmunds TCO data for both cars.
Fallacy no 1: The Honda is $2200 more to buy and is worth $2500 more after 5 years yet costs $348 less over the 5 years to insure. How could the insurance companies not charge as much per insured dollar of car value, making the Honda higher cost to insure?
Fallacy no 2: dividing fuel cost by today's local $2.93 price and dividing 75k mi by the gallons, the avg TCO assumed mileage is 33 mpg for an automatic Civic Coupe and 28 for an automatic G5 Coupe. This 5 mpg difference accounts for 60% of the 5 year TCO difference advantage of the Honda. I currently get 28 mpg average in my '96 Riviera that outweighs G5 by 600 lbs, has 161k miles on it and 225-16-60 tires and a 20 gallon tank. G5 can't beat the Riv with a 4 cyl, narrow tires, and a 13 gal tank? Yet Honda can use a 220 lb lower weight and 400 cc smaller engine advantage over G5 to get 5 mpg more average?
Fallacy no 3: A 3 year old Civic Coupe with 15k mi left on the powertrain warranty and nothing left on the B to B warranty is resellable for $10,822 while a ONE year old G5 with 85k left on the powertrain warranty and only 15k total mi on it is only resellable for $85 more than the 3 year old Civic? What do you get, a k mi of warranty for each dollar more with the G5? So 'I can have one sixth of the warranty for an $85 savings buying the 3 year old Civic' has people jumping? This fallacy accounts for over 50% of the TCO advantage of the Civic.
Fallacy no 4: In year 5, when only the G5 is still under warranty, the G5 maint and repair expenses are $29 per month more than those of the Civic, which is out of warranty and needs a new rubber timing belt (and water pump while your in there), typically to the tune of $7-800?
 
Summary: Unlike Civic, G5 has a usable back seat and so much more equipment for the price. $15920 will get you ABS, Traction Control, auto trans, 148 HP, 152 ft-lbs T, power surfoof, 7 spkr Pioneer cd, power mirrors, power locks, remote keyless, power windows, DIC with ext. temp, A/C, radio on steer wheel controls, 16" rims, cruise control, tilt, cargo net, and a few more things. Most of this list is not found on a $15920 Civic. The 2991 curb weight is closer to the '04 Accord and not the '04 Sunfire, so don't pass it off as a Sunfire rebadge with all the early '90's baggage that implies for reliability.

#140 of 160 Re: Comparing Civic Coupe to G5 Coupe [dave8697] by british_rover

Jul 08, 2007 (5:49 pm)

Replying to: dave8697 (Jul 08, 2007 1:04 pm)
The Civic is a a very desirable used car with a proven track record of reliability and performance.
 
The G5 has no track record as it is a "New" Model for Pontiac. Pontiac also has all of the typical GM baggage to overcome. Honda does not have any of those problems.
 
I liked my old Pontiac and it was a good car but there is a huge perception problem that all the GM brands have to over come. That perception problem was completely justified for all the junk cars they made over the years. They are better now but I don't think they are necessarily equal to Honda in every way.
 
Also as for your first fallacy insurance companies use a lot more then dollar value to figure out their rates. The programs they use to figure out insurance rates take in hundreds of different variables.

Messages Page 14 of 16

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